S/PV.116 Security Council

In accordance with rule 33, paragraph (4) 1 of our provisional rules of procedure, we have to consider the Australian proposal before we consider the amendments. Does anyone wish to speak on the Australian proposal? Mr. GROMYKO (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): I should like to say a few words, not 011 the Australian pr~posal, but concerning the Soviet amendments.

In accordance with our rules, we now have to consider the Australian proposal, but I think that it would be useful for the Council to hear the Soviet Union represen- Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Conformement au paragraphe 4 1 ) de l'article 33 de notre reglement interieur provisoire, nous devons examiner la proposition australienne avant d'examiner les amendements. Quelqu'un desire-t-il prendre la parole au sujet de 1<... proposition ~mstralienne? M. GROMYKO (Union des Republiques.socialistes sovietiques) (traduit du russe) : Je voudrais dire quelques mots, non pas au sujet de la proposition australienne, mais au suJet des amende·· ments sovietiques. Le PR€,sIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Conformement a notre reglement, nous devons examiner la proposition australienne, mais .le peuse qu'il peut etre utile au Conseil d'entendre la

Does anyone wish to speak on the AlIDtralian proposal to establish a subcommittee? Mr. VAN LANGENHOVE (Bdgium) (translated from Fre.nch): The considerations which inspired the Australian representative's proposal c~ainly deserve very sympathetic examination. I nevertheless hesitate to declare myself in favour of the proposal. . Indeed, it should be pointed out that the States non-members of the Council, which he referred to, were entitled, under Article 31 of the Oharter, to ~.sk to participate in our discussion, if they considered their interests affected. If they had thought such·a course desirable, the Belgian delegation would certainly have been among the first to support their request. ..The .PRESIDENT: .Before I recognize anyone. else, I ~.ask the Australian representa.tive to explain to.us the three points of this draft. First, it proposes· the establishment of a committee of the Council, but does not say whether or no~ . it is to consist of the whole Coundl; the second point is the inclusion hi this committee of representatives of countries having a direct interest in·the Japanese mandated islands, who are not in the.Council; the third point is· the inclusion of countries not members of the Security Council who may be invited to partJdpate in the discus- • Tel est 1'0bjet des amendements que nous avons presentes. Je voudrais marqueI' ma satisfaction de ce que la delegation des Etats-Unis accepte le premier ame.ldement sovietique. Quant au deuxieme amendement, je suis egalement satisfait de voir que M. Austin l'accepte en principe. Bien que je pre£exe le texte qui a ete presente par la delegation sovietique, je suis pret .a ajouter a la suite des mots ou vers l'indipendance, qui figurent dans cet amendement, le membre de phrase suivant: contormement a la Charte des Nations Unies. Quant au troisieme amendement, la delegation sovietique estime qu'en l'a'::'~::?t:illt,le Conseil apporterait sur le point qu'il conceme plus de precision au tex.te de l'accord et qu'ainsi le paragraphe en question serait plus conforme a la Charte des Nations Unies et en particulier a l'A..-ticle 83 de celle-ci. C'est tout ce que j'avais a dire a propos des amendements sovietiques. Le .PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Quelqu'un desire-t-il prendre la parole au sujet de la proposition soumise par la delegation australienne en vue de creei une sous-commission? M. VAN LANGENHOVE (Belgique): Les preoccupations qui inspirent la proposition du representant de l'Australie meritent certainement un ex.amen tres sympathique. J'ai cependant scru" pule a me prononcer en faveur de cette proposition. En dIet, il convient d'observer que les Etats non membres du Conseil qu'il a vises avaient la faculte, s'ils se croyaient interesses, de demander a participer a· nos deliberations, conformement al'Article 31 de la Charte. S'ils avaient juge opportun de le faire, la delegation beIge aurait certainement ete urie des premieres a se prononcer en faveur de leur demande. Le PRfSIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Avartt de d9finer la parole aun autre membre du Conseil, je voudrais demander au representant de 1'Australie de nous expliquer les trois points de son projet. Premier point: le projet prevoit la creatl":';'; (i'~me sous-commission du Conseil, mais ne pr~d.8'.; pas delle doit comprendre tous les mem/:ii ;;:, du COIlseil. Second point: la SuUScommission doit comprendre des representants des pays qui ne sont pas membres du Conseilet qui ont un interet direct au sort des iles ante~ I think that it would be a good thing if the representative of Australi~ were to clear up this matter so that the Council may be able to proceed with a quick discussion and decision on the question. In asking that, I think I am helping the Council to reach a decision. Mr. HAsLUCK (Australia): Mr. President, in answer to the first point you raised, it was om idea that the committee would be of such a size as the Council itself might determine. It need not be a committee of the whole Council but a committee of convenient size in order to discharge the functions laid upon it. It certainly need not be a comm5t::ee of the whole Council. M. HAsLUCK (Australie) (traduit de l'anglais): En reponse avotre premier point, Monsieur le President, nous estimons que le Conseil peut fixer lui-meme la composition de la souscom.."llission. n n'est pas necessaire que la sousconunbsion comprenne tous les membres da Conseil; il suffit d'une sous-commission suffisam.- ment importallte pour pouvoir s'acquitter des fonctions qui lui seront devolues. n n'est certaiuement pas necessaire que la sous-commission COIIlprenne tous les membres du Conseil. Je ne suis pas sUr d'avoir bien compris la deuxieme question que vous avez soulevee. Vous avez, je crois, demande a la delegation australienne de hommer les pays qui, selon cl1e, sDnt directement interesses. I am not sure that I rightly understood the second question which you raised. It seemed to me that you were asking the Australian delegation to indicate by name the countries which it considered were directly interested. The PRESIDENT: I am just asking what you mean by: "and that this committee should con':' "Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Je vous demande simplemellt ce que signifient les mots "et que cette sous-commission comprenne des representants des pays directement interesses au sort des lies anterieuremellt sous mandat japonais"? Ce1a veut-il dire que vous desirez voir des Etats non representes au Conseil faire partie de la sous-commission? La question est wpor- ~t of representatives of countries having a direct interest in the former Japanese mandated islands." Does thafmean that you wish to include countries which are not members of the Council? That is important, because we have never appointed a committee which included countries not members of the Council. ~ante, car nous n'avons jamais deslgne de souscommission comprenant des representants de pays qui ne sont pas re=esentes au Conseil. M. HAsLUCK (Australie) (traduit de ['anglais): Autant que je sache, rien ne s'oppose ace que le Conseil invite d'autres Membres des Nations UnicS a faire partie d'un organe subsidiaire cree par lui. Il est possible que je fasse erreur, mai'! je crois qu'en vertu de l'Article 29 de la Charte, le Conseil a le droit de creel' des organes subsidf~ires. A mon sens, la creation de ces organes subsidiaires n'est sujette aaucune restriction qui nous emp!kherait de designer, pour faire partie des organes subsidiaires, outre les membres du Conseil, des Membres des Nations Unies qui ne sont pas representes au Conseil. , Dans le cas quinous occupe, il nousa sembIe que certains Menlbres des Nations·Unies qui ne sont pas representes au Conseil de llecu..'ite pourraient etre invites afaire partie de .la souscommission. Quant ala troisieme question, j'y ai repondu en partie en vous expliquant queUe devraitetre, anatre avis, la composition de la sous-commission. J'estime que seul le Conseil siegeant en seance pIeniere peut inviter les Etats non memhres du Conseil. de securite a participer aux debats. La. procedure a suivre, au cas ou le Conseil prendrait une decision dans le sens de notre demaade, serait que les Etats qui ne sont pas membrces du Consell prissent l'initiative de demander h prendre part aux dt%atsj le Conseil, Mr. I!ASLUCK (Australia): So far as I know, there is no obstacle to the Council requesting other Members of the United Nations to serve on any subsidiary organ which it may create. I am subject to correction on that, but I think that under Article 29 of the Charter, the Council has power to create subsidiary organs, and, as I understand it, there is no restriction, in the creation of those subsidiary organs, which would prevent us from placing on the subsidiary orgaIlS other Members of the United Nations besides those who are members of this Council. We had in mind, in this instance, that some Members of the United Nations who are not members of this Council might be invited to join the committee. With regard to the third question, that is partly answered by the explanation I have given of our intention regarding the composition of the committee. The invitation to non-members of the Council to participate in the discussion could, I think, only be issued by the full Council. I should imagine that the procedure would be that, if a decision were taken along the lines we hav~ .sug?,ested, then the initiative to request partiCIpatiOn would be left to non-members of th.e Council; their requests would come before I No~, we are here. 'We have complied with the law. We have complied with the request of the General Assembly. In presenting this matter, it has appeared that we are almost unanimously in favour of this trusteeship agreement. The United States, on the other hand, does not want to act ill such a manner as to be inequitable in the least degree to any country on earth. If a country has an interest, the United States wants that country to be heard. The United States would be the very last member of this Security Council to' block or hinder a country having an interest. But just consider the situation. Here we are at the end of our discussions. Four month ago, the countries which are not members of this Security Council were delivered copies of this draft agreement, so that they might be abie to study them. This conduct was consistent with the principles and policies of the United Nations. These principles and policies are expressed in Article 31 of the Charter, as follows: "Any Member of the United Nations which is not a member of the Security Council may participate, without vote, in the discussion of any question brought before the Security Council whenever the latter considers that the interests of that Member are specially affected." Has there ever been a case in the history of the Security Council when a Member of the / United. Nations has asked to be heard and it has been denied to him? I am sure this has never occurred. Here we are at the end of the hearings and, so far as I know, nobody has made any request to be heard, although these Members have representatives here in New York City. There are two sides to this matter of equity. One must act equitably as well as ask for eqaity. And so I submit this matter for your fair consideration. Is it quite right flt tb'is stage to do 1 Se~ Resolutions adopted by the General Assembly at the first part of its first session, i''\ge 19. 'Voir les Resolutions adoptees par l'AssemblJe generale pendant la premiere partie de sa premiere aession, page 15.. S'est-il presente dans l'histoire du Conseil de securite un cas ou l'un des Membres des Nations Unies ait demande a etre entendu et ou ce droit lui ait ete refuse? Je suis certain que non. Nous void arrives a la fin de nos deliberations et, autant que je sache, personne n'a dernande a etre entendu, bien que les Membres interesse~ aient des representants, ici aNew-York. L'esprit d'equite doit etre reciproque. On ne doit pas seulement demander a etre traitc equitablement: on doit aussi faire preuve d"~quite envers les autres. Et, je vous le demande, est-il Why is it that the Council is asked to take the action that is proposed here if the countries which have received notice, and if other countries which have not had notice but which have lived in circumstances in which they are really charged with knowledge, have not come forward -not one single one of them-and asked to be heard? I regret it very much, but I think it would not be acting equitably to pass this resolution. Mr. HAsLUCK (Australia): I am afraid I I do not see this resolution in quite so serious a light as the representative of the United States sees it. My delegation certainly meant some- I thing very much milder, something which was intended to be more helpful than he has represented it to be. I should like to recall that in the original statement I made here on instructions from my Government I said-and I doubt if any plainer statement has been made before this Councilthat Australia's policy has been to support the United States policy in obtaining control of these islands. That is our funda·nental policy on this question, and it has come as something of a shock to us to have a rather mild resolution represented as an attempt to interfere with the attainment of that objective, because that is our objective too. The sole motive behind this resolution, and all that we have said, is the desire to relate this disposition of the Japanese mandated.islands to the war in the Pacific. The fact that these islands came within the disposition of .....the United Nations is a consequence of the ~,~ f'ai le grand regret de vous dire qu'a mon av3, il ne serait pas equitable d'adopter cette res>lution. \1:. HAsLUCK (Australie) (traduit de l'anglis): Je n'attache pas a cette resolution toute l'inportance que lui attribue le representant des Etts-Unis. Aux yeux de ma delegation, elle avi.t une portee beaucoup plus conciliante; le bu que @us avons voulu servir etait beaueoup pIs utile qU'il n'apparait dans son discours. ie voudrais rappeler la premiere' declaration qe j'ai faite, confonnement aux instructions de rrin Gouvernement: j'ai dit-et je doute qu'auc::t membre se soit exprime plus nettement devilt ce Conseilque l'Australie appuie la polique des Etats-Unis qui veulent s'assurer le chtrole de ces iles. Telle est la base de notre aitude; nous avons ete vivement surpris de ()nstater que 1'0n transformait une resolution 'll1tot conciliante en une tentative destinee a ontrarier la realisation de eet objectif, C1bjectif Qi est egalement notre, Tout ce que nous avons ~ ici, et la r,·. , Ion que nous avons soumise, 1;ldaient a i.c:..::Jlir une relation entre le sort lB iles sous mandat japomiis et la gl.lerre du 1cifique. Le fait qu'il appartient aux Nations ~es de decider du sort de ces ues est une It seemed to us that a resolution of this kind might help to bring ~bout an orderly conclusion to our work and mIght also help to provide that direct relationship with the war in the Pacific which seems to us to be essentia.l in the final disposition of these islands. But, if there is not general consent to.tJ1at view, and if, as is apparent, the Council does not think that the appointment of a committee would serve any useful purpose, we would be quite prepared to withdraw our resolution because it can only serve a useful pUl}lose if it accords with the Council's idea of an orderly way of conductingits own business. We would, however; suggest that following the withdrawal of this resolution, and subject to any other observations that might be made, there should be a further adjournment to allow time for any applications by non~members of the Council to participate in this discussion. We know of no intention to make such appication, but in spite of what has been said; it ,,geems to us that this matter has not really b~ before the Council for very lo:pg. It was intoduced a week ago, and we" immediately ~d­ journed. This monly the second effective ~ay of debate on the resolution. '( With your permission, Mr. President, anro avoid any further misunderstanding, we' . withdraw that resolution. Sir Alexander CAOOGAN (United Kingdon : I should like to support the suggestion just mae by the representative of Australia that wei journ,'. ,I, sh,ould like to ex,plain that I, also,h e one or two amendments which my Governm t eXpected me to propose. While the Austr proposal was before the Council I felt it pro~r n,ot to,discuss them 0,r to, place them be,for"e , Council, because if the Australian proposal h been adopted, they would have been prope plltto, and diScussed in, the committee whit he suggested setting up. \ But now that he has withdfawn that proposJ I shall have,to have the honour of submi . to the Council itself these ,one or two'amen \ ments. Therefore, there must, I am afraid, some discussion. 'We are not quite at thee of our work, and, as I ~mderstand it,there one'or twO' other amendments·that have not been entirely cleared up. , Toutefois, je propose qu'apres retrait de ma resolution, et sous reserve de toute autre obser~ vation qui pourrait etre formulee, le Conseil ajourne la discussion une fois de plus, afin de permettre aux Etats non membres du Conseil de securite desireux de participer a cette discussion de faire une demande a cet effet. Aucune intention de cet ordre ne s'est manifestee, a notre connaissance, mais, quoi qu'on en ait dit, il nollS semble que cette question n'est pas depuis si longtemps a l'otdre du jour du Conseil. Il en a ete saisi il y a une semaine, et la discussion a ete immediateinent ajournee. En realite, c'est aujourd'hui le deuxieme jour seulement que nollS discutons vraiment cette resolutuion. Si vous le pe.;-mettez, Monsieur le President, nous retirerons la resolution afin d'eviter tout nouveau malentendu. Sir Alexander CAnoGAN (Royaume-Uni) (traduit de l'anglais): Je me range al'avis du repre- _, &entant de l'Australie, qui demande -que nollS ajournions la discussion. Je tiens a vous dire que mon, Gouvernement voudrait~ lui aussi, soumettre au Conseil un ou deux amendements. Je n'ai pas juge a prepos de vous les presenter, ni de les mettre en discussion pendant que le Conseil examinait la proposition de l'Australie, car, si le Conseil avait adopte cette proposition, j'aurais soumis (.1;:$ <n11endements a l'examen de la sous· commiS&:iol'1 Cl1">i1saffee. Mais, puJsque },i; representant de l'i\.ustralie a decide et,,: :retJP':l' :3aproposition, j'aurai I'honnerir de sournettrr:. ;~ed amendements au Conseil'luimeme.En consequence, je crainsbien que nous ne soyonsobliges de prolonger la discussion. Nos travaux ne sont pas encore completement termines et, si je comprenciB hien, il·reste encore d'autres amendements amettre au point. -, I think the time has come to adjounl our proceedings, as was suggested by the representative of the United Kingdom. We have a meeting scheduled for Monday to discuss the report of the Atomic Energy Commission. I propose that we meet again to consider this question of trm.teeship on Wednesday at 3 o'clock. We will then take up the considerration of the amendments, and the first speaker will be the representative of Poland. La seance est levee a18 h. 10. o UNITED NATIONS PUBLICATIONS PUBLICATIONS DES NATIONS UNIES Security Council Pubiications Publications du Conseil de securite Journal of the Security Council (i 8 January- n July 1946), bilingual: English-French, 42 issues, 868 pages, the set $4.20 The Journal of the Security Council, issues 1-42, contains the records of the first 49 meetings of the Security Council in their pmvisional fm·m. 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