S/PV.377 Security Council

In connexion with this Palestine question there has been circulated to members of the Council, although it does not appear on the agenda, a complaint from the Secreiary-General of the Arab League protesting against certain atrocities alleged to have been committed in Palestine [$/7068]. existe question plainte Ligue voir @éire et incidenis Mr. Ammown (Lebanon) (franslated from French) : I understand then that the resolution just adopted applies to the incidents in Galilee as well as to those in the Negeb, and that the same principle will be applied fo the incidents which have occurred in these two areas, Mr. Paropr (France) (translated from French): We have not been informed about the incidents in Galilee. I note that the resolution on which we have just voted contains a paragraph which states that the Security Council “takes note of the request xommunicated to the Government of Egypt md the Provisional Government of Israel ay the Acting Mediator on 26 October, folowing wpon the resolution adopted by the security Council on 19 October 1948 ”. éié produits résolution un le demande Gouvernement nement teur adopiée 19 I think this paragraph gives the precise aeaning of the resolution we have just dopted, I must say that I had understood fagon nous Pavais quement en peut-éire : a8 applying solely to. the situation in the legeb, If it were otherwise, the resolution ught still be excellent, and at first sight I unk it would be, but I must say that I now nothing about the incidents in Galiler. - mais -emenis de sujet, donc mens SH inless I am mistaken, we have had no r.- ort about them from the Acting Mediatur. 8 far as I know, then, the discussion did ot bear on Galilee. Council would consider that the action which we have proposed to take in relation to that situation should apply to similar situations which may develop elsewhere. What I should lke io know is whether the Acting Mediator considers that he would be authorized, in regard to a sitnation such as that in Galilee, to apply the same procedure as is here prescribed for the case of the Negeb. If he does feel that he has sufficient authority to do that, then { think we can he satisfied with the resolution which we have just adopted, If he does not feel that he could follow such a procedure in regard to other similar situations, it might be necessary to submit to the Council a resolution giving him that authority. I do not know what the view of the Acting Mediator would be. Mr. Paropt (France) (translated from French) : I think it might perhaps be better if we ourselves provided the interpretation of the resolution that has just been adopted. I must make a reservation on what the United Kingdom represeniative has just said, for I do not see how the Acting Mediator’s opinion could change the meaning of this resolution. I think it would be preferable for us to give a decision on the question raised by the representative of Lebanon, and to settle what interpretation sheulid be given to the resolution we have adopted. When I speke a moment ago I had in mind that the discussion we had had dealt with the Negeb question. But I think I spoke a little hastily, as on re-reading the resolution that has been adopied, it seems to me to be general in character and to apply to all similar cases. On reflection, as far as I am concerned, I should be inclined to interpret it in that sense, I think, therefore, that the representative of Lebanon was quite right io raise the question, but I also think I was right ito raise an ob*sction which has snibicd us ito clarify the point he had raises. Mr. Ammoun (Lebanon) (fransiued from French) : I agree with the French representative. I said that I considered the reso- _ tution just adopted to be of a general nature. The Security Council was ai that time already seized of a report from the Acting Mediator concerning both the inci- Mr. Esan (Provisional Government of Israel) : It seems to me that any impartial person reading this resolution must receive the impression that it refers to military events in one specific part of Palestine alone, namely to the Negeb. The fourth paragraph of this resolution refers to a resolution of 19 October, which envisaged certain negotiations between the Governments of Egypt and of Israel, both of which are specifically and exclusively mentioned. When the third paragraph talks ahout both parties, it naust, therefore, mean the Governments-of Israel and Egypt. who are engaged in a dispute in that specific area. Further in the resolution, we see that the Security Council fakes note of a request communicated to the Government of Egypt and to the Provisional Government of Israel by the Acting Mediator on 26 October. That request refers specifically and exclusively to events in the Negeb. Therefore, when the Security Council, passing to the operative part of its resolution, calls upon the interested Governments to withdraw those of their forces, and so forth, and to establish certain positions between them, it is clearly making that recommendation to the Governments of Israel and Egypt in respect of the area which has been under discussion in the Security Council. | ; No discussion has been held in the Security Council about the position in the nerth of Palestine, arising from the violation of the truce by the irregular forces under Fawzi El Kawkji, who is alleged to be responsible to the Government of Lebanon. No reference to the command of that force or ito the Lebanese Government occurs in any ‘part of this resolution. _iIt would seem to us a very strange practice, when a resolution has been passed on a certain specific subject, to attempt a mechanical application of it to 4 matter which has not even come up for discussion before the Security Council. Mir, Parnopr (Prance) (énanslated from French) : 1 musi apologize for speaking again. The resolution on which we have voted was drawn up as a result of the incidents in the Negeb. Nevertheless, it contains rules which are inherently of a general nature and which could be applied to other cases. However, on the question of applying them to other cases, if would, of course, be advisable to take into account the events which have oocurred and ito try and find, for example responsibilities which may have been incurred at the very beginning of the breach of the truce. I think we can rely on the Acting Mediator to understand the resolution in that sense and to apply it equitably to the different cases with which he may have to deal. : Mr, Jesstr (United States of America) : It seems to me’ that the resolution which the Security Council: has just adopted, by its references in the fourth paragraph—and particularly the reference to the resolution adopted by the Security Council on 19 October—clearly had in mind the present situation in the Negeb as referred to in thé resolution of 19 October. It therefore scems to me to be correct to\say that the resolution which has just been adopted. has been’ drafted with reference to that situation. The Security. Council is aware, of course, that other resolutions have been adopted which deal with the general situation of the truce in Palestine, and that the truce is in general applicable to the whole area. However, as I have indicated, it seems to me that the provisions in the resolution just adopted are clearly drawn with reference to the particular situation. Mahmoud Fawzi Bey (Egypt) : When I requested, on behalf of my Government, that the Security Council consider the situation in connexion with zionist violations of the truce, I was nof at all thinking only in terms of the position of Egypt. What I had in mind were ihe violations of the truce by zionist forces. As far as Egypt and the Egyptian army are concerned, { should like fo repeat that the Egyptian army continues to be as solid and. as determined as ever. The guestion ‘did not merely concern the part we are playing in the whole matter; but if concerned the whole situation of the peace in Palestine. As far as we are concerned, we At the same dime, we find that fhe atrocities are continuing, as witnessed by document 8/1068 which has been distributed to members of the Security Council today. These atrocities are not just matters of savagery. They also mean the driving ‘away from their homes of further thousands of persons who seek safety in Egypt and Lebanon and in other Arab countries, and who find themselves out in the desert and in the mountains while winter is approaching, All this has to be taken info consideration, an I can quite see that what has been alluded to by the representatives of France and the United States is a matter of methodical procedure, but I trust that both these representatives will agree that this Council is not an academy of methodical procedure but, above -everything else, a Security Council, There would be no sense ab all in telling anyone to stop violating the truce on one front while at the same time giving him a free hand to violate it on other fronts. Consequently, I suppose and hope that the Security Council will adopt the conception that today’s resolution applies to all fronts. if need be, I shall prepare a formal proposalin the hope that it may be sponsored by one of the members of the Security Council. The Preswent (translated from Spanish): No definite motion has been made; thus think we might adjourn. Mr. Esan (Provisional Government of Israel) : I just want to take two minutes of the Security Council’s time to comment on the remark which was made during the course of the earlier meeting and which, according to our own information, is already having unfortunate public effects. We regard ourselves as having no other duty but to give accurate expression to the views and sentiments of the Government of Israel. We believe that the utmost candor is justified, and we do not suggest eny artificial or ceremonial inhibitions on free speech, We cannot, however, be silent when the soldiers of Israel, defending their terriory In the south, are likened by the repreeniative of the United Kingdom to Hitler's tazi hordes. I am convinced that that em arl wernwe © - that those who hold such comparisons in their minds should seek to influence the solution of the Palestine problem. Sir Alexander Capocan (United Kingdom) : Perhaps my remark this afternoon was open to misinterpretation. I did not compare the Jewish forces io Hitler’s hordes. The Jewish representative protested against the proposed resolution which he said disturbed the condition of tranquillity and peace. All I meant was that you can have in an occupied country a condition of tranquillity and peace, but that does not mean that you should not ask or urge that that particular position should be reversed. I wished to draw no comparison whatever between the Jewish forces and what Major Eban he. called “Hitler’s hordes”, It is merely a matter of remembering thai peace and tranquillity cannot be produced and must not be allowed ‘to last through an occupation of someone else’s territory. Emir Adel Arstan (Syria) franslated from French): Those who appear indignant at having been compared with ithe Nazis need only to have avoided murdering women and children, and mutilating babies, of two, three and five months old in front of their mothers. It is easy ‘to say ‘that-they do not want to be compared with the Nazis, but their acts are the same. _ The Present (franslated from Spanish): If there are no other observations, the meeting will be adjourned. Sir Alexander Capocan (United Kingdom): I am always. in favour of an adjournment, But, if we adjourn now, where are we? A point has been raised by the representative of Lebanon which seems not to have been answered. Are we going to itake that into consideration, postpone it until another date, or what are we going to do about it? The Presipent (@ransiated from Spanish) : The United Kingdom representative proposes that the meeting should continue. I have already stated quite clearly that I have received no formal proposal, and cannot u--e the members of the Council to maize proposals, but they have ihe right to do so. For my part, I see no objection to resuming the meeting. “The Security Council, “Having adopted on 4 November a reso- Invion concerning the situation in Southern Palestine, and ’ “Having considered the information supplied by the Acting Mediator concerning the situation in Northern Palestine, “ Extends the scope of the aforementioned resolution to. the situation in Northern Palestine, ” The Presiwenr (translated from Spanish) : The Council has before it the proposal made by the United Kingdom representative. Mr. Paropr (France) (translated from French): When I spoke a short time ago, I said that the resolution, by its very nature, seemed to me to contain general provisions which might be applied to all similar cases. It is in that sense, I think, that the United Kingdom: representative has just raised the question. But he is putting before us a proposal in which we affirm that the previous resolution applies to what has happened in Galilee : that would mean that i.c consider that tha case is in fact similar .2 : se Negeb case, upon which we have been informed. On the question of Galilee, we have not received here—at least i have not—any information and we should have some indications as to the way in which events developed in . Galilee, I think, therefore, that it might be best to adhere ito the following interpretation : that ithe resolution we have adopted in the form in which it was submitted, applies to the Negeb, and that it contains general principles which may be applied in all similar cases, whenever it can be shown that such cases are, in fact, similar. Bui I to not think we can take any stand on the Tuestion of Northern Gatilee, without laving been informed on what has hapdened there. As far ac Ttrnawr cern Lae ot While the members of the Council are considering what they should do, 1 wish to state that while the representative of Argentina is President of the Securilly Council, he will not interpret any resolution, It is absolutely indispensable that ‘the Council should express its own opinion, It is all the more necessary to bear that in mind, since, in the last paragraph of the resolution adopted, it has been decided that the Acting Mediator must undertake discussions with a special committee of the Council, of which the President is not a member, I formally draw the attention of members of the Council to this point: The President will not-take responsibility for any kind of interpretation, but he will call a meeting of ithe Council if necessary, unless it-is decided to vote on an interpretation tonight, tomorrow or at any other time. The proposal of the United Kingdom representative is being typed for distribution to the members of the Council. Mr. J. Maxix (Union, of Soviet. Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): A strange practice is being introduced into the -Security Council, The representatives of. Lebanon and Syria. were already in possession of these facts and could have referred to them before a vote was taken on. the.resolution. We all know ‘that the situation in the Negeb.has been discussed at the last four meetings of the Security Council, We have all read the text of the propesed resolution and know that it deals with events in the Negeb. Now 'that a vote has-already been taken on this resolution, which gives the date of events in the Negeb and Jays down limits applicable to ‘the Negeh, the question of extending tthe scope of the resolution is being raised, and direct reference is being made to definite areas f the .xont to which the provisions of ithe resolution must be extended, oe We all realize that we have not sufficient nformation on the situation in Galilee, as he representative of France has already . vointed out.. This question has-mot been onsidered or discussed in the Security council, Consequently there would be no ense or purpose in lfaking any hasty deciion at the-present time. - | Events ~ have shown that the ‘Security — wouncil ‘has already taken ecision—that of 19 Ociober; one hasty that. was The representative of the United Kingdom is now proposing a third hasty decision. For what reason? Is there any need for such haste? I suggest we examine the question put forward today by the representatives of Lebanon and Syria, and that we postpone a decision until that has been done, Are we under any obligalion to. take decisions at once and in such haste? Sir Alexander Capvogan (United Kingdom) : I do not think the situation is quite so strange as our colleague of the USSR tries to. make out. The Security Council has, by a vote, this evening, decided to apply ertain principles where there has admittedly been a breach of ‘the truce and a change ip the military situation,.[ do not see why he Security Cowncil should not be able to iay that these principles should be applied n other areas or quarters where a similar reach of tthe truce and a-change in the nilitary situation is produced, I quite agree that the resolution which we ave passed was directed originally to the ituation in the Negeb, but it. does lay down ertain general principles, and I do not see rhy, if the Council would agree, this should ob apply to other parts where the truce wy equally be broken and the military ituation changed. - moe It may be true that we have not yet ceived a detailed report’ of the events in alilee. Tt seems clear there have been ilitary movements there, and military tovements involve a breach of tthe truce ad they involve a change in the military tuation. I am nob saying which State has ‘taped advantage from this movement. I do It say which State aggressed first. AI I say : why cannotithe Council say it will apply ese principles, which it is ready to apply’ ‘de the Negeb, in any similar case which may ‘cur elsewhere in Palestine. Fmir Adel Anstan (Syria) (translated om French) : I think that the represen-- live of the Soviet Union was one of those 10 most strongly opposed any adjournent on this question. Each ttime an journment has been proposed, for one maintenant two days or .even one meeting, he has posed it. However, this evening, when we 1y have wished to please him, he accuses of acting hastily. There is nothing ange about the proposal now being made. applicable to one area and not to the oiher? The Jewish representative has stated thal it was irregular forces which viclated the truce. I have already disputed that point of view. At a previous meeting [873ih meeting] I said thaf it was the Jews who had prevented the inquiry from being carried out, and when people behave like that, it means they fear the result of an inquiry. I do not want to go into further detail this evening but we have proof that it was the Jews who violated the truce. I will say no more about this, I am also wondering why we are being reproached with wishing to obtain a hasty decision. In fact, there is no question of that, but of applying a principle, Furthermore, if the choice lay between a hasty decision and an adjournment, then the first alternative should be chosen, for, as we have just Jearnt from the communication sent by the Secretary-General of the Arab League, to which the Egyptian representative has just referred, atrocities are being committed in Galilee, We might perhaps be within our rights in asking that a commission of inguiry should be set up immediately fo deal with that question, I have already had the honour of declaring to the Security Council that not only are those atrocities being committed, but thai a largescale campaign is being conducted fo reduce Galilee to a desert, to drive out all its inhabitants and destroy their homes, in order that the State of Israel may be erected on ihe ruins of the country. In these circumstances, I do not think we can be reproached for asking that a decision should be taken as scon as possible. Mr. Pearson (Canada) : The question at issue, it seems to me, is the extent of the responsibility of the Acting Mediator under ithe resolution which we have just adopted. I was quite clear in my own mind when I supported that resolution that the extent of that responsibility had been fairly definitely determined in the resolution, and that it covered only a particular area of Palestine. I do not know how the Acting doubt av *~ the extent of his responsibilities he cay then advice of the Committee which een set mp. If the Acting Mediator, in carrying out the resolution, feels that his responsibilities should be extended or could be extended to another area of Palestine, he is at liberty to call together this Committee of the Council and to take the matter up with it; and ihe situation could then be clarified by the Committee of the Council, which, if necessary, could refer it to tthe full Gor 1. Mahmoud Fawzr Bey (Egypt) : To begin with, I have two questions to ask. The first is directed to the Acting Mediator. I should like to hear from him—if it is not too soon for him to express himself on the subject—whether he would feel sufficiently armed for his difficult task with the resolution which the Security Council has just adopted; or whether he would be encountering the old, previous difficulties in connexion with parts of Palestine other than the Negeb. The other question is not a new one. I mentioned it at this afternoon’s meeting of -mulée the Security Council. I asked whether the Jewish representative -could tell us if the parties he represents are still of the opinion which he expressed at a previous meeting of the Council [375th meeting], to the effect that, for the Zionists, to accept printeffect that, for the Zionists, to accept withdrawal to ‘the original positions would be accepting a thing which cannot practically be realized, These are the two questions upon which I should iike, if possible, ‘to hear some comment. I would deem such comment useful and enlightening. With regard to the statement of the tepresentative of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics that we should not rush the Council, may I say, most respectfully, that this matter of zionist violations of the truce has been going on for quite a long while—briskly, steadily, incresingly and atrociously. The letter which I submitted to the Security Council asking to consideration of the situation of violations of the trnna a an ie I submit that when the Security Council took its decision this evening in connexion with the Egyptian communication as to violations of the druce, it did not do so out of special affection for the area of the Negeb ; it did it by principle, by conviction that péace musi be restored, and that people must be saved from the scourge of . Strife and war. I would like to hear whether sufficient means have been put at ithe Usposal of the Acting Mediator, in this connexion, and whether he will be able to consider himself sufficiently armed; with only a resolution which purports to deal merely with the situation in the Negeb and not with the other areas,-I for one always want tto believe ithat the Security Council is logical and not mechanical in its work, and that it will face the situation as a whole and not take it piecemeal. Mr, Hsu (China): The draft resolution submitted by the United Kingdom appears to be very sensible, and the adoption of this resolution by the Security Council seems to be the proper step to take. My delegation will, therefore, support this draft resolution. Mr. Nisor (Belgium) (translated from French) : I will also support the drafi resolution just’ submitted by the United Kingdom representative, I should add that when I voted ‘on the first resolution, I did so with the conviction that # affirmed principles susceptible of general applicaition. ; Mr. TaRAsenko (Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic) (franslated from Russian) : The delegation of the Ukrainian SSR still sees no reason for taking an immediate decision on the question from the angle proposed by .the representative of the United Kingdom. We are being asked to accept a great deal on trust, namely thaf similar siniatinne af tha tonam are takings nilare in Tt is only logical that before we take a decisiun of this kind, which casts a slur on one party, we must thoroughly consider and study tthe question, and this requires time. I therefore think it would be wiser — and I wish to press this point — if we postponed the consideration of the United Kingdom proposal until the next meeting, in order ito give all representatives an opportunity of studying the question. Only then should we proceed fo discuss it, Mr. Buncse (Acting United Nations Mediator for Palestine): With respect to the question just raised by the representative of Egypt, I may say, as I pointed out in my statement to the Council this afternoon, that it is of most vital importance to me and to the Truce Supervision onganization generally, tthat we have guidance of the atmost clarity from the Security Council on these matters. Whe have learned this from umpleasant experience. It would appear to me that the resolution just adopted by the Council was adopted on the basis of a particular situation, the situation in the Neyeb, and unless there were specific instructions or interpretations from the Council to the effect that this resolution was intended ito apply to Lebanon, I certainly would not feel free to make any such interpretation or application of the resolution, - : ‘ _a It may well be that the principles and procedures set forth in the fifth paragraph of the resolution might be applied to the Lebanese situation: I have not yet given’ to the’ Security Council a full report on’ that situation ; I; myself, do not have the fullest information on it, The. cease-fire did finally g0 into effect last Sunday morning at 8 a.m. GMT. The Chief of Staff of the Truce Supervision, who left Beirut yesterday, will be here tomorrow with full details cn this exposé Situation, I would say that, while the principles and. procedures in the fifth paragraph of ‘the resolution which has just been adopted might be applied to tha Lebanese situation, there might be some qualification ini the Sense that some such wording as “where applicable” might be employed. I say that advisedly because, while there ere some Very definite similarities between the situation in-Lebanon and the situation in the Negeb, in the sense that there have been important changes in the military situation, i think T-needonly say at this time that there: ane alan anwdtat AL. and procedures might be applied to ihe Lebanese situation with some qualification which would permit discretion ito be employed by the Truce Supervision organization in consultation with the Committee of the Security Council which has just been set up — if, of course, it were also provided that that Committee of the Security Council would be empowered to advise on the Lebanese situation or on the situation in other sectors as well as on the situation in the Negeb, Mr, Tarasenko (Ukrainian Soviet Secialist Republic) (translated from Russian) : In view of the Acting Mediator’s statement that he is not in possession of full and reliable information, I should like to propose once again that we should suspend the discussion of ithis resclution, since we are being pressed to reach decisions on facts, the authenticity of which has not been confirmed and the existence of which is known to us through only one of the parties concerned. It seems to me that it would, in the circumstances, be both inadvisable and foolish to take a decision censuring the other party to the dispute. I therefore again urge that we postpone discussion of the United Kingdom resolution. . The Presivenr (translated from Spanish) : In accordance with paragraph 5 of rule 33 of the provisional rules of procedure, the representative of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic has requested the postponement of discussion of the question raised by the United Kingdom representative, He has not said whether discussion is to be postponed until a particular date, but at all events, he has proposed that it be postponed. This is the only motion at present before the Council on which debate may take place. The Council is to consider, therefore, whether consideration of the question raised - by the United: Kingdom representative is to be postponed. Sir Alexander Capocan (United Kingdom): If the Council does not feel that it is able to take a decision tonight I must, naturally, agree with that. I only hope that the postponement will be brief and thait the Council may be able to take this matter into consid- J should like to add one word in regard to a remark made by the representative of the Ukrainian SSR. He said that apparently the resolution which I have just had the henour to present condemns one side. It certainly does not. It does not condemn either side, but it is perfectly impartial. The Present (translated from Spanish) : Does the United Kingdom representative formally propose that discussion be postponed until tomorrow? Sir Alexander Capoocan (United Kingdom) : Ves, The Present (translated from Spanish): If no representative wishes to speak, we shall vote on whether consideration of the question raised by the United Kingdom representative should be postponed until tomorrow at 3.30 p.m. Mr. Paropt (France) (franslated from French) : I would just tike to be quite sure that we shall have the information by tomorrow, as the Acting Mediator has indicated, Is that,-in fact what he meant? Mr. Buncue (Acting United Nations Mediator for Palestine): What I said was that the Chief of Staff, General Riley, would be arriving in Paris tomorrow. I do not yet know the exact time of his arrival, but I doubt very much that he would be here in ‘time for a meeting of the Security Council im mid-afternoon, although that is possibie. He is flying here and left Beirut yesterday. The Presipent (‘ranslated from Spanish): If ithe members of the Council feel that it would be too scon te begin consideration of the question tomorrow at 3.30 p.m., we could postpone ithe consideration of the matter until Saturday at the same time. Mr. Paropr (France) (translated from French) : I do not in the least want to delay the discussion, on the contrary, However, if we do meet again we must have the information which we lack this evening. therwise what would we do ? ‘The Presient (translated from Spanish)': © shall first vote on whether discussion of this matter shall be postiponed until Orrow at 820 nm», - The Presiwent (fransiated-from Spanish): The French representative proposes that the question be only considered on Saturday. so Mr. Paropnt (France) (franslated from French) : I think, Mr. President, that the wisest course would be for you to convene us yourself if, after what Mr. Bunche has said, you consider that a meeting might be useful. . The PresIDENt (franslated from Spanish) Does that meet with general approval? . As there is no objection, I shall adopt that course. The meeting rose at 11 p.m. THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-EIGHTH MEETING a Held in private at the Palais de Chaillot, Paris, on Tuesday, 9 November 1948, at 3 p.m. President : Dr. J. Ancz (Argentina). Present : The representatives of tthe following countries: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, China, Colombia, France, Syria, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Kingdom, United States of America. 5. Official Communiqué In accordance with rule 55 of the provisional rules of procedure of tthe Security Council, the following communiqué was issued by the Secretary-Gemeral and is circulated in place of a verbatim record : “The Security Council, meeting in private this afternoon, heard the Acting United Nations Mediator for Palestine, Mr. Ralph J. Bunche, elaberate on the views expressed by him previously concerning the truce situation in Palestine and the possibilities for a more permanent arrangement. “ An exchange of views took place which will be continued at 10.30 a.m. tomorrow. “Mr, Bunche’s suggestions to the Security Council, which were submitted by him today for purposes of convenience in the form of a draft resolution, are as follows ‘The Security Coitncil, ‘Having decided on 15 -July 1948 that subject to further decision by the Security Council or the General Assembly, the truce in Palestine shall remain in force in