S/PV.9 Security Council

This is the first meeting for the dection of judges ta the International Court of Justice. Vou will find in document A/251 a note on. the procedure for the election as weIl as the requirements of the candidates which you should bear in mind at the election. Vou will Q,ote that you have to mark fifteen. names on the ballot.papers which have been clistributed to you, and that no persan can be "loted for whose name is not inc1uded in the list which is printed on the ballot paper. You will vote with a cross. Kindly note that you 'Vote-with a cross for each of the candidates you wish to see elected. , 1 should Iike to reminrl )rou that, since the list pnntedin todays Journal shows ·three Domina~ tians mentioned on the ballot paper that have béen withdrawn, those should he struck out. These are Mr. Accioly; Mr. Ghengànd 1\...1..•• Heever. Those cancUdates who obtain an absolute majorityof votes in ~e Gen~ral Assembly and in the Security Council·will be considered as elected. If more than fifteen candidateS obtain an absolute majorlty, thosewith the highest number of votes will be declared eleeted. F1.lr~ thetmQre, you>will note thatwe are advised by the Secretariatthat·six votes coDl5titute an abl~ ~l$ee Offtcjal. R,cords .01 th, S,curiey. Couneil,Firat " 'Yealj,l"irat Series, Supplement N(). J; Artnex,8, Are there any questions that you wish to ask me in regard to what 1 have Just said as to the arder of procedure? 1 havebeen asked a question. as to whether a ballot paper that has less than fifteen names marked with a cross would be valid. Legal advisers of the Secretariat indicate that it would be a valid vot~, but 1 think 1 will seek confirmation as to whether that is also the opiIîion of those who are conducting the eIections in the Assembly. He con/erred with advisers. The PRESIDENT: 1 am assured that that is the procedure that is followed in the. eIections in the Assembly. maintenant la sein de l'Assemblée. s'occvjer noms proposés The onIy other matter that the Council is required ta deal with is the matter of the teIlers: Are the names of the two people who have been suggested as te1lers acceptable to the Coumcil? In the absence of opposition, 1 consider that theyare. Mr. RrAz (Egypt)': You have just mentioned the case of a voting paper having less th~m fifteen names marked with a cross. What about a paper which has more than fifteen names marked? l~ considère comme adoptés. Vous tant Que quinze noms ainsi designés?

Any paper that haB: more than the required number of fifteen names marked will nat be regarded as a valid paper. b'ulletin quinze noms considéré Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom) ~ As in the elections upstairs in' the General Assemb1y, 1 suppo~e the Secretary-General takes I)art in the counting? l'anglais): se que pouillement

Yes, 1 can assure Mr. Noel- Baker that the Secretary-General will have general supervision over the whole matter. puis Secrétaire sur l'ensemble des élections. If there are no further questions to be asked in regard to this matter, 1 would suggest that meIhbersof the,Council now proceed to th(\ vot-" ing; You will undê.."Statid that fifteen is the l1Utnber of persans that are to ,he elected on the first vote, and that you must vote with a cross. concer~e aux rappelle premier marqués d'une croix. . The PRESIDENT: Those three names that mentioned as having been withdrawn, Mr. Accioly, Mr. Cheng and Mr. Heever, may not he voted for. :a:",~..everybody now completed the ballot paper? If 50, 1 will ask the tellers to come to the centre here, open the box and exhibit it, 50 that everyone will be perfectly satisfied tbat there are no papers aIready there. After that, 1 shall call the names and the te1lers will take the box and collect the ballot paper from each ,mentber, that the members will not need to leave their places. AlI ballot papers have been collected. The teIlers will now proceed to the scrutiny of the ballots. The Council will be suspended untiI such time as 1 indicate to members that the scrutiny hasbeen completed and we are ID. a position hear the result. The meeting was suspended at Il.05 a.m. and resumed at 12.25 p.m. 43. Result of thefirst ballot

The tellers' report is that there were eleven valid votes. AlI except one voted for fifteen candidates. The total number of votes, therefore, could have been one hundred and siJ.."tf-five,but fact onIy one hundred and sixty-fQur were actually recorded. ln respect of the re'SuIt of the :first ballot, 1 will ~k the Secretary-General to read the name and 1 will announce the number of votes that have .been received by that candidate. The first group of candidates who have received six or more votes are as follows: The Preside'lJ:1J1nd the Secretary-General then read thenamesof candidates and the number of votes 7eceived by each: Candidates, Votes Hsu, Dr. Mo (China) ...............• ; 11 KRYLov,Professor Sergei Borisovich (Union of Soviet SqcialistRepublics)•.... ~ • •.. 11 . " .. 4 BADAWI, Pasha,H. ~. Ahdel Hamid (Egypt) 10 BASDEVANT, Professor Jules (E'rance) • . •.• 10 :MoNAIR., Sir Arnold Duncan· (United-King- ~d9mJ..'...'. '~,. '._. e)•••• '.,'••••:.--••••.•. ••••• 10 AZE~Do,Dr.>J.Philadelpho<de Barros (Brazil) •..•.• ~.~ .. ~ ..•... ; ..•... , . YlssoliER,I)r.Charles deJBeIgiUlll)~. ..... FÀBl!:LA. .t\LF.-\RO, Licenciado Isicko ." '('Me~C(:f);'-'" .. -.. .. •••-'••. •".:." ....• _..

The other results are in alphabetical orde.r. I will ask the Secretary- General ta lead the names: ACEVEDO, Dr. Eduardo (Uruguay)....... AnLB, H. E. Mostafa (Iran)............ ALTAMIRA, Mr. Rafael (Spain).......... ANDERSON, Licenciado Luis (Costa Rica) • DAVIS., ~r. Justice R. P. B. (Union of South Moca) "••• ~ """"""""" " HUDSON, Judge ManIey O. (United States of America) """ t " " " " " ",' " " " ... " " " " " " " " JOVA, Justice Mariano H. de (Philippine Connnon~eaJtn) ..... ~~•.•..... ~ .... Lo?.ANO y LozANo, Dr. Oados (Colombia) MVERS, Sir Michael (New Ztaland)... ..• PAPeRA PÉREZ, Dr. Caracciolo (Venezuela). PÉREZ, Dr. Nestor Luis (Venezuela). .. ..• PILOTTI, Dr. Massimo (Italy).. • • . . . . . . • • PODESTA COSTA, Mr. {,uis (Argentina).... SPIROPOULOS, Professor John (Greece).... VERZIJI" Prùfessor J. H. W. (Netherlands) WINIARSKI, Mr. Bogdan (Poland).. . .. .•. ZAFRULLAH KHAN, Sir Mohamed (India).

The paper which bears those results is duly signed by the two tellers. In respect of the first fifteen names that I gave in the :first group, those who had six or more votes recorded in their favour I declare duly elected by the Security COUReil. I will transmit those names to the President of the Assembly. In regard to the next proceedings, it has been suggested· by the President of the Assembly that weshotild continue the proceedings this afternoon at 3 p.m. Therefore I would suggest that the· meeting of the Security Council be suspended now until 3 0'dock :fuis afternoon. At 12.32 p.m. the meeting was suspended ttntil3 p.m. ", 44. Communications from the President of fhe General Assembly . , The PRESIDENT: Mter our meeting this morning, 1 informed the President of the General Assembly of the results of the election of members of the International Court of Justice by the Security Council.· Since thèn I have had. two communications from the President of the Gen- . eralAssembly, one infprming the Secunty.Council of the results of the election in the General. Assembly, ~ridthe otherstating the namesof the thirteen, candidates who .have obtained the Dr. A. Alvarez Dr. J. Azevedo A. H. Badawi Pasha Professor J. Basdevant Ml". Fabela Alfaro Dr. J. G. Guerrero The Hon. G. H. Hackworth Dr. Mo Hsu ProfessorS.B.EJylov Sir Arnold McNair Ml'. J. E. Read Dr. Charles de Visscher Dr. M. Zorocié." Président du Conseil de sécurité. deux Je deux bulletin candidatures M. auront l'Assemblée seront candidats seuls réuni le indications contenues tribué bien prendre leurplace. ter .des bien vous tures que This letter is addressed to me as President of the Security Counci!. It therefore appears that two seats at the International Court of Justice still remain to be filled'. 1 ask you to mark by a cross tWO names, and not more than two names, on the ballot paper; and you will rememberthat the candidates, Ml'. Cheng, Ml'. Justice Heever and Ml'. Accioly, have been withdrawn. Those who obtain an absolute.majority orvotes in the General Assembly and in the Security Council sliall be considered as elected. If more than two candidates obtain an absolute majority, those with the highest' numbers of votes would be declared elected. For the l'est, may 1 remind you of the. note on procedure, document AJ25, which was distributed ta you this morning. 1 ask the tellers now to take their positions. Iaskyou now to mark your b.allot papers with a crossagainst two names, two names only, while remembering the1uee names that were mentioned as having been withdrawn and the thirteen names that'have a1ready been eleCted as judges to ,the:international Court of' Justice. Now, 1 suggest that theCouncil ptoceed .to the actual marking of the ballot papers. 1 would like to point out that it is not perinissible to vote for a' person 'of the·. same nationality'as one., who aIready has been elected. ' jug~s mYlte de encore pour ~un elus. 'Mr.RJA.Z(Egypt): Itis. rather difficult, 1 t~,to m~eour wishes clear inthispaper, me notreintennon deux noms be(:~pse,there are. two colurons, and with only two-names, we.ll1lght get mixed up between the coltimn on the right and that on the left; unless

The cross must he put in the square on the right-hand side of the name. Dr. Wellington Koo (China): Mr. Chairman, 1 just want to make sure, if the cross is clearly indicated on the left-hand side and not in the square, would that make the vote invalid?

1 do not think so. No, that is so. 1 think that we can all make quite a formal and proper vote by putting the cross to the right of the name. Mr. RrAz (.Egypt) : May 1make a suggestion? 1 tlùnk it would make matters absolutely clear if the name is underlined, anq then there can be no mistake. '

1 can hardly believe that gentlemen of 5uch experience would be unable to understand this. Ballots will now be put in the box. l'will call the names in arder, and 1 will ask you to place the papers in the ballot box.

Will tellers kinrlly retire te the room where they exallline the ballot papers? 1 will reconvene the meeting at such time as the result of the .ballot is avallable. In the meantime, 1 will suspend the sitting of the· Council until that time. The Council is suspended for such time as will be required for counting the ballots. The meeting was suspended at 3.55 p.m. and resumed at 4.10 p.m.

1 have received fromthe tellers the result of the ballot which has just been taken, which is as follows: 'Candidates Votes Mr. Mostafa Arlle ,(Iran).: 1 Professor K. H. Balley (Australia). . •.. 3 Dr. H.K1aestad (Norway). . . . . . . . . .. 5 Professor J. Spiropoulos (Greece) ..... 1 Professor J. H. W. Verzijl (Netherlands) .3 - Mr. Bogdan Winiarski (Poland) 7 Sir Mohamed, Zafrullah Khan (India). 2 GulY one has received the required number for an absolute majority; he is Mr. WINIARSRi of Poland, who has received seven. 1 therefore-àe-·,.· clare hiIn elected by t~e Security Council on this

Are there any other observations in regard to the matter which has been raised by the representative of Brazil? Mr. RrAz (Egypt): 1 back this proposition because we are here actually to get two candidates elected and we have only one. 1 should think we-should complete our terms of reference and elect the other one. Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): 1 should like to support the proposal which has been made. 1 believe that under the Statute of the Permanent Court of International Justice, in which the procedure was not quite the same but nearly so, that interpretation was always given to 'l:his rule, which has not been changed.

For the information of the SecurityCouncil, 1 should like to say that 1 understand that the President of the Assembly wishes to be informed of the result of each of the ballots that we may take. _ _(traduitmander tion de l'autre membre de Puis-je l'anglais) mais, communiquer dent dent portant majorité sans Mr. DE FREITAS-VALLE (Brazil): 1 think thè President has the right to have the result at the . end of each meeting, but not the result of each ballot. Mr. STETTINIUS (United States ofAmerica) : 1 think it would bea wise procedure for the- President of the Assembly to be notified of the result of the ballot we have.taken, and then for· us to proceed immediately on the suggestion of the representative of Brazil to take the ballot for t~e second name. The PRESIDENT: That seems to bea suggestion that might possibly overcome any difficulty that has arisen. 1 will: therefore, communicate ta the President of the Assembly the result of the present' ballot, and if thereis no objection from the members of the Council 1 shall then proceed toask the Council te take a forther ballotfor the election of onemore representative. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): May 1 suggest_arecess of five minutesbefore we start that ballot? . Mr. NOÊL-BAKER (UDjtedKingdom).: 1 do not want. to-_-be froubleSome, but-l' feel that ·there is a little difficulty about communicating an _-_incomplete result to the President of the' Assembly; Supposethat the President of the Assembly -then proceeds -to _have an election upstaîrs.withone candidate who has asufficient majorityand on therest ofourlist without ObN taîning. a definite result. What happens then? Mr. RIAz (Egypt): 1 think the matter is clear. Regarding the ballot, 1 think we should proceed, because our actual object is to get two members elected. As far as the Assembly is concerned, 1 do not think·the Assembly will, as Mr. Noel-Baker suggested, proceed to have a new ballot on the basis of .what we have done here. 1 think that the two ballots should go on concomitantly. The only thing is that we might send the first result. The successful candidate might have been elected in the ballot they have 'already had, and therefore they could declare him elected. The Assembly will not start that ballot before we start our second because we might get one name, and t..~erefore the election would be closed without further ballot. But the Assembly camiot start the second ballot until our final result is known. Mr. VYSHINSKY (Union ef Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated trom Russian): 1 would suggest that we shoùld waste no more time. Time is precious, and we should use it wiseIy. It is not important that we should reach an agreement on one course of action or another. What is important is that we should have a second ballot at once, in. order to choose a second name. In the meantime, the President of the General Assembly can be informed of the election of'Mr. Winîarski. 1 suggest that· the discussion should be closed. Mr. NOEL-BAKER(UnitedKingdom): On ~ point of order, 1 think it wotild be wrong, if 1 may say 50 with respect to our Soviet colleague, to close the debate now, because 1 do not think the essential point hasyet been brought out. The essential point is this: Under Articles Il and'12 of the Statute of the Court, we mustmake three .attempts to hold an election'by COmm0J;l accord of this Council and the Assembly. When these three attempts have been made, that process 'is exhausted. Then.there is a joint meeting. If we send up'a list now and the President of the Assembly declares an election, is that one of thethree attempts oriS it not? That· is the point that .must be settled and,· in my 'submission, there is not a conclusion of an attem.pt until we have filled both p!aces. If you would lîketose.nd up the information to the Preside;.lt, aU right, but let him do nothing with it 4ecause 1 feelsure that, if he proceeds tq do anything, to

In answer to the representative of the Unit~d Kingdom, 1 should like to say that 1 have already received a communication from the President of the Assembly intimating that it has been unable to .•. MI'. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): On a _point of order, 1 do not think we ought to receive a communication from the Assembly until we have finished our election.

May ~ say, Mr. Noel-Baker, that, in regard to the communication that 1 intimated would be made to the President of the Assembly, no action can be taken upon that, for no further meeting of the Assembly will take place before five o'dock. Therefore, there is no reason why we cannot proceed to a second ballot immediately. Mio. MODZELEWSKI (Poland) (translated trom French): 1 have just heard that the President of the General Assembly has already announced the election of Mr. Winîarski. 1 do not know what we are discussing, since the General Assembly has already been informed.

1 think, without making any further reference to the situation, that we can proceed immediately to take another ballot. MI'. RrAz (Egypt): 1 think that what we have taken is a full ballot ~s prescribed in the Statute of the Court. A ballot does not mean that we must come ta a definite full e1ection. This morning we e1ected thirteen, and two had not the substantive majority. The same thing happens now. MI'. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): With grea.t respect, we had a fulllist. MI'. RrAz (Egypt): l igtee. Supposing this morning we had only thirteen'or ten or five with a suflicient majorlty; would that have amounted ta a ballot? Yes or No? Yeso We would have gone on. MI'. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): Certa.inly. MI'. RIAZ (Egypt): It would have gone on. MI'. NOEL.;BAKER (Uniteel Kingdom): Yes, )1htil we got.fifteen. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): Then we are going on and the Assembly is" going on until it gets its two. Mr. VYS"HINSKY (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated trom Russian): 1 propose closing the "discussion. Time is precious.

Unless there is any strong objection, 1 will proceed to the ballot for the second name. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): A last ward, sir. 1 hear that the Assembly has had its meeting without result. It is meeting again at five. Do you think that we should be in harmony with the Assembly or the Assembly in harmony with us?

1 have the advice of the experts from the Secretariat, who suggest that wë are quite able, and quite consistently able, ta take the second ballot. There is no reason why that should not be done. Mr. RrAz (Egypt): Excuse me, every ballot has to be examined on its own merits. If we ballot concomitantly with the Assembly on the question and if the Assembly does not get result, our e1ection is nullified just the same. We have ta start a second ballot at the same time, and if the Assembly has no result or if our result does not coinCide with its result, that is finished and we start on a third ballot.

The position was that we had to elect two persons on this partictilar ballot. Now, we have elected only one. Therefore, 1 think it is quite within the competence of the Council to proceed immediately to another ballot for the second vote. Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): 1 fully agree with our Soviet colleague that time is very important, but, since we know that we shall do our business in about one-tenth of the time in which the Assembly will do its business, we have a great deal of time atour disposal; and sometiin~s procedure is more impqrtant than time, especially when ymi-are creating precedents, as we are now creating precedents.• 1 wa.nt to have a seèond vote now; 1 am in agreement with that. But we really must be clear on the meaning of the Articles of the Statute. Mr. RrAz (Egypt): 1 fully agree with Mr. Noel-Baker that the two ballots should be taken into consideration together, and in theory he is quite right; but now we have defiriite knowledge ,that the Assembly has come to no, agreetp.ent, so what is the use? Nobody will be elected as .a 'result of this ballot; nobody has obtained a majority. If we elect two people now, what will be the result? We start again. Mr. DE FREITAS-VALLE (Brazil): Since 1 originated the tempest, i would like to say that' the Assembiy has the right to adjourn for half anhour if it wants to. Then it can make a second attempt at a second meeting, lasting, perhaps, until sevèn or eight ô'dock. But it has to produce two names, as we have tQ produce two now. Then, if it is neecessary, we can adjourn 'again and thèn make a third attempt. li, aftel'" that third attempt, ·there is no result, we shall have to get together in the m~er laiq, down for us. opportun Thç PRESIDENT: May 1 suggest that 1 think . that this matter has been sufficiently elaborated and that, while this discussion has been most important and valuable, Ithink that this might be the stage at which we can proceed actually to the taking of the second ballot. l'anglais): sera cette très Mr: NOEL-BAIŒR (United Kingdom)': 1 agree to that, but r hope that a verbatim record will be kept of this most imp.ortant discussion, becallile a precedent is involved.

1 shan certainly see'that a verbatim record is kept. . . . lcrai, à soit fourni. Now,itwill he essential, .in' the recording 9f the vote of. this particular·.ballot, -to remember. the ilames '. of the thirteen persons who •were originally' •elected, the. three names •. that have been withdr~wn,and.the Iiame.of theperson whpwaselected in .the recent ballotbythe Seçurity Counçil. Therefore, it· will bè~ential sent treize vient de avoir

1 do not expect that it will take very many minutes for the ballot to be counted; but in the meantimc the meeting will be suspended.

1 have a very important legal point on which 1 think, fust of all, that members of the Council must be very c1ear, so that it cannot be said that there is a misunderstanding about it. Therefore, while 1 have the result of the ballot here, 1 feel 1 should not declare it until you know exactly whàt the position is. The position, 1 am told by one of the legal experts of the Secretariat-and' the Secretary- General agrees with that interpretation-is that the ballot that we have just taken is the third ballot. As long as members of the Council understand that, 1 will be prepared to dec1are the ballot. 1 do not want it to be said at some later stage that you have been denied an opportunity to make a third selection, so 1 ask you just to realize the significance of this dec1aration. (During the interpretation) May 1 ask that there should be less conversation. 1 feel that we are not having from sorne of those who are not official representatives just the «::onsideration that the deliberations of this Council merit; and 1 do ask thatthose who are here, eitheron the staff or as observers, or who are not officially connected wîth the proceedings in any way, will at least remain quiet so that theinterpretations as well as the speeches of members of the Council, can be heard in reasonable silence. Mr.RrAz (Egypt) (translated from French): Mr. Chairman, what you say is pJt:rfectly cor,,: rect, and ît confirms everything that 1 have al· ready stated. 1 quite agree thatwe have now proceeded to the third ballot. .F ....'· mnately, this vote is not valid for the follc"::'6 reasons: The second ballot shouldhave been cast concurrently by the General Assembly and the Security Council, and the result of those two votes'should be taken together. What was the result of the second ballot in the Security Council? Only one judge obtained a majority. In the General Assembly, no candidate obtained.a majority..Colisequently,.there wasno result.We arenow on the third baJJ.,t; l'am very willing to admitthat itis,th,,~ i.hu'd ballot. Two.seats remained .to befillecl.; we shopldhave voîtd for ~o names at theti."n~. Unfortunately, wevoted for only one candid,atf* z.lthough wc should kave voted 'for two. . . - It might 'weIl happen ~der this procedure that a very small numbcr of judges would be ekctcd by the three brJkri.J; it has not been so today, but it might happen. In that case, the clection of the Court would, in effect, be left to six delegates chosen by t.qe Assembly ~d this body. 1 carniot believe, and 1 do :lot, ~at that is the intention of the Statute. Moreover, the Statute uses l~guage which to my mind is quite plain, in certain Articles. In Article 10, paragraph 2, it says: "Any vote of the Security Council . . . shall be taken", etc.; but in Articles .11 ~d 12 it does not speak of "votes" but of "meetings". And that is why we have arranged today ta hav~ three meetings. If we now take a vote, we shalI be ending the third vote but we shalI not be ending the third meeting: we shall be ending the second meeting. To makc the meaning of the ward "meeting" coincide with the ward "vote" seems ta me grotesque. 1 turn ta the French text, which 1 have here. If you look at the French text, the last clause of Article 10 says: cCAu cas où le double scrutin de l'Assemblée générale et du Conseil de sécurité se porterait sw' plus d'un ressortis~ant du mOme Etat, 'le plus tigé est seul élu." That is to say, it says: "Where tlÎe vote" le scrutin. And then, in the next line, it says: cCSi, après la pr.;mière séance d'éltG,tion, il reste encore des sièges à pou.rvair, il est procédé, de la mOrne. manière, à une seconda 'et, s'il est néct1ssaire, à une troisième." It ïs' impossible to interpret that except as meaning that at each meeting it is the dutY of cach of the electingbodies to produce_a compIete Iist, and that theygo on h~ying one vote Mter ano'i:!J.cr ~til they. have produced. such a- Lat.! donot think that, when we cameinto this ~)OM this mo~g,anybody"hadany doubt that . if,in fact, w!}had not electedfifteen persons at the .first vote, we mould then· proceed immediatelyto. ~ot1ler election untîl we hadcompleted pur list before wesent. it to theAss~mbly.That . iS.~o,as 1 understandit,completelyînaccord with the proct'dure,\\,hich is suggested by th'" Sectetariat;and .thereforeI am at a complete loss•. If .•anybody. can~xpl~in to me any. other Îl1t~retation of th~Statute than that, 1 shall b~glad ~~ listen andbe persuaded, but 1 coilfess lshallneed BOille persulttion. 1 do not yet know the result of this third ballot, but 1 think the correct mterpretation of this, situation isthat we are now in Ol1r third meeting. If we take the result into account, we shall subsequently be obliged to deal with Article 12, and ta decide what is the right course , of action: to resort to acondliatory method, or ta take sorne other decision. At present, to sum up, 1 feel obliged to say that 1 do not agree with the interpretation that .,severalballots can take place at one meeting. Such an interpretation is not correct, and that is why 1 suppoft'the interpretation given to the President by the Secretariat.

1 would like to put trns to the Security Council. We have in the room at present the Pre.sident of the General Assembly. 1 was wondering"if the Council' would, like to have the advantage of such knowledge as can be imparted by Mr. Spaak, the President of the General Assembly, regarding the procedure that has beenfollowed in the Assembly on this particular matter? It is, of course, necessary, if the Presidentis ,to be able' to speak, that it be at the request of the Council, in order tl ' emight afford ,to us Buch information as pu: e. Is it the wish of. the Council that the. President of the Assembly be asked to speak? Mr. RrAz (Egypt) (t'lanslated tram French) : The opinion of the President of tt 1 Gelleral Assemblyis certainly very important. But, not hellig acqllaintedwith what the Assembly has

If that is the wish of the members, then maybe •••• l.fr. Noel-Baker. Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): This is a complicated matter, and 1 dare say it will take us some time before we resolve it. 1 hope we shaU aU recognize that it is important ta keep quite calm. When we are translating paper documents into living institutions, of course, difficultif'.s in interpretation ~\nd procedure must inevitably arise. Now, what is the right thing to do? My intuition leads me to believe that the President of the Assembly agrees with the representative of Egypt and disagrees with me. Mr. RrAz (Egypt): 1 did not make a ~ase of it. Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United IGngdo:tp): But 1 am very strongly in favour ofhearing the Presidentnow, and sinceI have reason ta think he is against me and the view 1 hold, 1 am the more anxious thathe_spe~. But 1 thinkthat then we ought, perhaps, ta have our own discussion, in which.other members of the Council can express their opinions, and then see if we ought not t'l have a joint conference on the way to deal with this matter. As 1 say, it may take a littIe ~Ale, but the thing is important. But 1 do not think .we ought to take decisions which later might be regretted. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): 1 j~ wish to say that 1 did not makea casëagainst hearing the Presi- _4.~t! 'Nfr. VAN. KLEFFENS (Netherlands): 1 think we shouldbe veryclear in our minds that.this isa question wbich. concerns the As.'l~mply just as muchas it concerns the .Security Council, bec~use, together,we have te proceed through this verycopll'Iicated. electioIt 1 shcu14 be very interestedto hear what (he.Pr:sidentoftheGen- Mr. PADILLA NERva (Mexico): 1 think that this question is very important, because it is tantamount to deciding whether the moment of the joint conference is dependent upon the will of the President of the Security Council, and the President of the General. Assembly, or whetherit depends on.the ruling of the Charter. If we are of the opinion that at a meeting we can have two, three or four ballots and it would still be called one meeting, then the moment at which the joint conference would act would dependentirely upon the will of the members . of the Couneil and the will of the President of' the Counèil. That'would close the meeting, . which would adjourn; and it would be called O!le meeting. . Then it would not depend upon the ruling of the Charter. Therefore, we will never have a permanent ruling in that respect. On one occasion, one President of the Security Council would have a number of elections in one meeting; ori another occasion, he might adjourn the meeting and have only two. 1 am certain that the intention of the spirit of the ChCh-ter was not that the joint conference should .depend upon a changing attitude of the President of the Council, t.he President of the Assembly, or even the members of the Coundl. It has tobe a perma" . nent, certain rule; and the only possibility of having that permanent ruling that would not he difficult tG interpret, would be ta consider each ballot as a meeting, m·the words of Article 12. For that reason, 1 -believe that we are nQw on the third of these baIlots-on the third of !hose meetings.

1 presume that the representCitive of France wish~sto speak before the President ofthe Assembly speaks? Mr. BIDAULT (Franc,.::) (translated from French): Ishouldmerely like to say a few things, and very 'sÎmplY. But lam cOlllPcl1ed, by the duties of my 'trU3t, not toremainsilent any lor~ger after so nlUch' eloqu~nce· on the part of my colleagues. But what 1 should like to urge the Security Council is to take a decision, no matter which, and to pass on to discussions of a nature more important to t!~e security with which we are entrusted.

1 take it that it is the pleasure of the Council that 1 should ask the President ta speak now to the meeting? Is that agreed toP ' Mr. President, we are very pleased to have you present and we willlisten with great interest ta whatever information you can supply us with on this matter. 45. Address of the President of the· Gen- eral Assembly Mr. SPAAK (President of the General As- sembly) (translated from French) :Mter the speeches l have just heard, 1 shall not have much to add, particularly since severa! speakers have pointed out what 1 believe to be the cor- rect interpretation of Article Il. Of course, 1 'do not claim that what 1 am going te) say bas absolute bearing ahd cannot he refuted by certain arguments. The reason .why we are meeting 'NÎth· difficulty is that sev- el'al interpr~tations are possible. ..• The point to know is what is meant bythe words' "a meeting held for the. purpose of the election" (séance d'élection). 1 think that this .expression must be interpreted as meaning a ballot. Itisthe only illtefpretation that seems te me to be. completely logical, because there are no groundsfor statingthata "meetingheld for the plli",pose of the election" is a clay, rather than a week .or'a month. Tomaintain such a thesis seems arbittary to me. Isee 0nlY one a.rgument in. favour of it, to'wit; that thete is a. i precedent in the methods of the I..eagueof Nations, which considered that a ((séance d'élection" wasa day. But. we are not bound, by this precedent.. We mU$t even endeavotlr,ÎI1ce!'t~çases,todc:tbet- ter thanwas done atGen~!la., ...... Iflhadto go deeperimto thequestion,this is howIshould do it.The t,t"xt .of Article 11 is as follolVs. "If, alter tb.efirstmeeting heldfor th~ purposeofthe election, one or more seats te- main tobe ij1led, a.secondand, if necessary, a tbiid meetingshalltakeplactf'. .' Mr. RrAz (Egypt) (translated from French): 1 wish, fust of all, ta thank the President of the General Assembly for the very clear ex- planations he has given us. 1 would aIso like ta ask him two questions: . In the fust plaGe, 1 am not speaking of the fust ballot which took place this morning. 1 am speaking of the one that took place this aftel'- noon. The fust ballot in the Security Council resulted in a partial list. The fust ballot in the General Assembly was without any result. What is the general result of this dual ballot? My: seçond. question is: What will he the purpose of a third ballot in the Security Council? Mr.. SPAAK (President. of the General As· sembly) ... Uranslate4 fr()m French) : .I will ven- ture ta answer the questions, although they come within the .cqm,petence .of the Security' Council rather thap. t'lie Assembly. The .Security Council, in its' sec()nd ballot, nominated a member who obtained the neces- sarymajority.· This candidate ,cannat .be de- clared elected becausc he did not obtain the necessary majority ~1. the General Assembly. A thirdballo1: willbe neces.sary ta fill the two seats cremc8.i~J!11tY~~~'Jt._c . Mr. Wellington Koo (China): 1 have so far refrained from taking part in the debate on this question, because 1 did not wis.b. to prolong the discussion, but since it is so open to general discussion and since the question appears the more complicated as the discussion proceeds, 1 want to present my views for what they are worth. It seems to me that the wholedifficulty centres on the interpretation of the word "meeting,'~ whether it means one ballot or several ballots. There are arguments for adopting one interpre- tation, for saying that one meeting was one ballot; otherwise, if it means several ballots, then it would continue with no results and that would not be the purpose of the Article. On the otherhand,it has been argued that one meeting necessarily means more than one ballot, he- cause otherwise, if one meeting is orny one ballot and that ballot does not bring forth any concrete result, we go on to the second and third and it is conceivable, as the representative of the United Kingdom so weil put_it, that, if not all fifteen, at least a great majority.of them would be left to be electcd by the concurrence of the Council and the Assembly. Therefore, it would. have to be left to the joint meeting of six persons, andthat aIso would not be carrying out the intention of the Statute. - 1 submit, in my mind it is very clear that when the Article speaks of three meetings, while it refers to meetings of the Council and of the Assembly, what·is really meant is three com- parisons of the results in the Council, on the one hand, and the results in the Assembly, on the other. . . It seems to me that it is orny when there is a compa,tison of the.result~ of the two organe; and fifteen judges are not elected, that is, where there is bilateral concurrence only on some oÎ the names1 thatboth the Council and the As- sembly proceed to hoId a secondmeeting. Then, after the second meeting, .we make the second comparison. If tha,t fails$ there is a tbird meet- ing and then -the third comparison. That is the only logicalinterpretation. In. eac~ case, it is supposed that ateach meetingeach organ is to .pr6âuce fifteen menlbers. Iwould'notrefer to·the procedure explained' in thepaper submittedbyMr. Freyassupreme. But itseems to be logicalthat each meeting ~ intended to .....produce in.. the first place fiftéen . candidates· and, if not,then whatever number plusieurs tours d'élection, que nouveau, The argument has been advanced ~at if there èan be several ballots at one meeting, we can keep on voting and that will take a lot of time. There again 1 offer you my own opinion. l'Article 8 rale damment bres disposition, que le ,Conseil dure; pour tient d'élection deux ment tion soit atteint. des tour ces résultats comparaison appelés You will recall that Article 8 of the Statute says: "The General Assembly and the Security Couneil shall proceed independently of one an- other to e1ect the members of the Court." 'Fol- lowing that, it is not necessary, as far as 1 can see, that the General Assembly and the Security Couneil should adopt the same procedure; each organ is competent to determine its own proce- dure. It is up to either of them to decièl.e whether one meeting shall be OOie ballot 01' two ballots or more than two ballots. It is aIso within the competence (if the Couneil to determine that the meeting shall go on lmtil the r.œcessary num- ber is produced. In the Couneil, the number of members is much smaller and it takes only a little time to have a ballot. Then the Assembly can compare its results with our results. If that fails, itis only then that· we are called upon to hold a third meeting. en le nir la rique membres. Therefore, if this view is correct, while frankly . appreciating the views brought ta us by the President of the Assembly, we can proceed to determine our own interpretation of what' the position is, with due regard to the size of the Couneil and the general sentiment of the members. m.on d'élection, "séances quoique des -"comparaisons". viens de dire exacte. conformément il pensable nous dats, semblée comparer elle-même elle-même considérer après candidats, To summarize, let me say that, in myview, when the Statute,speaks of three meetings, while it specifically refers to "meetings" what is really intended, though it is not said here, is "com- parisons." 1 do 'Ilot know whether thât expresses the right view or not. In order to make each comparison conform with the intention and the purpose of·the Statute,. that llleans that we must produce thenecessary number of candidates. In this case, we must consider two candidates so as to report to the Assembly and enable the As- sembly to compare theIh with its own two can- didat{:s. It is up to the Assembly itself to decide whether it shall stop the balloting and consider the" meeting c10sed after having accepted one candidate or both candidates or no candidates. But itis forthe Councilto decide whether we shouldnot go on until we have what we consid~.J:'.p.ous.

1 think that we should now be able to come ta sorne decision in regard the matter. 1 know that it is of extreme importance and that we should like to have every point most carefully examined. But 1 woulJ ask that, if we can at aIl expedite our discussion, it might be a consideration with members the Council, but 1 would not wish to deny anybody the right to be able to speak. - Mi'. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): 1 am most anxious to accelerate proceedings and am, in fact, going topropose a compromise which 1 hope may acceler-ate them a great deal; but 1 must, 1 am afraid, deal with sorne of the questions which have been raised. He is' a brave man who ventures to differ from two such lawyers as the Foreign Minister of the Netherlands and the President of the Assembly, but the more 1 listened to them the more 1 felt convinced that, in fact, what 1 had previously submitted was right. These Articles 8 to 12, which we are now interpreting, survive from the original Statute of the International Court; that to say, aIl the elections of the old Permanent Court of International Justice were he1d on the basis of these Articles textually as they are now. That means that.they were interpreted by many eminent lawyers, and the interpretation was put into practice. That must carry weight. The first Article, No. 8, says: "The General Assembly and the Security Couneil shaIl proceed independently of one another·to elect the members of the Court". Whatdoes the word "elect" mean? In my submissicn, it can. only meàn what our Chinese colleague has justso ingeniously,. and, to my mind, convincingly argued, namely, a selection Gf a list for aIl the places still tobe filled, fifteen in the. original instance, two in our present instance. l venture to submit that it caIlnot mean anything eIse. The President of the Assembly said, and·1 not know whe"e hé got bis information, that the· e1ection. in the League Assembly a meeting wasarbitrarily declared to be a day. Wherever hegothis information, it was wrong. A meeting was the time necessary to secure a list for aIl the places to be filled. 1 am net sure how many people at tbis table tC/ex part in the e1ection 1930; .T did. There were a great number of ballets il1oncof the meetings beforea liSt If the Statute had meant that one ballot was sufficient that three balbts oruy were required belore y~u came. ta the join~ conference is ~t conceivable that ID these Arbdes Il and 12 It would have used the ward "meeting)'? Is it conceivable? Obviously it WQuld have used the ward "ballot" CCtour de scrutin." That, ta my mind, cannat be argued. 1 have no doubt whatever that an electoral meeting is not a ballot; it is a procejure implying as many ballots as are necessary tG fill the vacant seats. It is that which dete1"mines when an electoral'meeting, under the Court Statute for the election 01· judges, euels. It ends wheil the electoral body in question, the Council or the Assembly,has, so far as itis concerned, made an election to every vacant seat. If anybody eIse can tell me why the ward "meeting" was used if a single ballot was meant, and show that my interpretation is wrong, 1should be very grateful. scrutin était seulement . d'une que le Evidemment, il aurait employé le scrutin" autant pour vertu le qu'un seul interprétation reconnaissant. This discussion began with advice from the Secretariat, but we had advice from the Secretari;:..t in A/25, the document which was circula,ted bearing the ~ate of 31 January, and which, atmy request, has been circulated again to the Council now. If the members of the Council will look at paragraph 5 on page 2 they will see, "If the first ballot does not result in fifteen members of the Court being elected, the General Assembly will proceed to a new ballot. The General Assembly will hold as many ballots as are required to elect fifteen candidates for its list." Paragraph 6 says that the Security Council will do the same. par du 31 qui, tribué reporter lire: pas générale blée procédera sera nécessaire pour'élire les quinze sa que le, Conseil It seems to me perfectly plain that the system envisaged by' the Secretariat was,that which had been previously laid down as the meaning of the Statute and which, 1 venturi r·) ;hink, it is very difficult for us to upset. If! ,;)':., words, 1 have arrivetl."at...the.,.same....cQndu~"'n as our Chïnese colleaglle, that the intention of these Articles can oruy be this: namely, that we mus,t have complete lists, with the seats filled, which can be compared as between the Ass(:mbly and the Council. ' tème avait sens même du, penser, il nous est d'autres sion but nous obliger-àétablir les pa:ées The President of the Assembly asked us, "Whatis the interest of carrying on this discussion.and not settling ,it all with three votes?)' 1 ul wo. d ask, "What is the.interest of not settling the whole Court by a single majority votewith theCoùncil and the Assemblynteeting to~ gether?" It would be much simpler, and 1 would ~e quitereadyin my,,mind to acceptsuch a, solution, but we.have to consider what is laid down in the Statute. We cannot just arbitrariîy say "quel ne demanderai à majorité Conseil et coup· plus personnellement à nature; à That 1:; my argument on•the merits, and 1 am not at all satisfied with the arguments on,the other side. 1 am certain that that is the correct interpretati~~.~f the Statute~. . But what;:i~we going t~ do today? Well, we have, in fact,;'élected thirteen judges. There are onIy two places to be filled. 1 am sure that any of the candidates now in the running, including the candidate whom we have just elected, would make an admirable judge. For my part, 1·disagree with the President of the Assembly. Itshows how complicated the matteris. 1 disagree with him in thinking that the selection of Mr.Winiarski as our fourteenth (as the Security Cmmcil's fourteenth) judge is not valid, and that we ought tovotefor both places. I-,am quite cIear in my mind thàt we ought onIytovote for one; that, as far as we aie . c9ncerned, Mr. Winiarskiis now elected and the last.place should be filled. It shows the great complications. There are only two-Jplaces, in any case, to be filled, and if we did nQlt finally get selection in .the ·Assembly and the Council, it. would not great1y matter, because 1· think wc could saiely le~ve it to the joint conference or,. everitually~ to the Court itselfto sele~t. 1 should have cl.lIlpleteconfidence'either in ajoint c~n ference or in the Court_ Therefore,what 1 now,propose iSthis, that we .. should, •for this meeting crily ,and on the. .• Very cIear understanding that no precedent is 'created, accept the procedure advocated bythe President of the Assembly' ~dcount this next 'vote asthethird rouuci;but,beforeilieAssembly and ·the .Council ,have.ta deal. with . the matteragain, we should, askthelntel'Uational CoUrt of Justice, whichwillbe constitutedand in actipn;togive us. an advisoryopinion UpOli the meaning of. these· clauses, so thatnext time '. this question willnot arise. . :Mr.RIAz rEgypt) (translated Irom French) : ~•. am.<iuiteprePared to supP9rtthe proposalput ·<)rw~dbr:M:r:.N?el-Baker,but1 wouldsug~ ···••gestan.a111eJ:ldment, We have twoquestions be': ·foreus.We m.ust get out of the deadlock in a practiçal manner.Later weshall' havetcf en- . deav()qI' to obtain a solution which confogns 'witlt. t1t.c:fin4ingsùf the t:';xv~rt~,~"."ri~ tL::L:,; . "",gice;ilupolibyp()th.à,Ssemblies. Weface the avec dère tin mettant semblée. Noel~Baker'sproposaI. He considers that we are at the second baliot and that we should proceed to the third ballot, putting ourselves in harmony with the wotk of the Assembly. l'anglais): tant pas accepte, par Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): Do 1 understand our colleague to propose that we should not proceed to a further e1ection, but should accept for the Council whatever selection the Assembly makes upstairs? Non! sommes de le même que-celui auquel procède l'Assemblée - par obtenus, connais nous ces effectuée toutes deux qui quelle' procède Mr. RrAz (Egypt): No. 1 say this: let ~ consider that we are on our third vote, or third ballot, that third ballot being the same as the one upstairs, and that the result is constituted . by two results, whether different or not. 1 do not know the one result, that result which will.ulti~ mate1y be announced to us. And let us consider that ballot as conducted at· the same time, and valid and equal to what is going on in ~e As~ sembly, which it considers its third ballot. Mr. PASVOLSKY (United States of America): 'W.e are confronted 'rÎth a very complicated situation and à very· difficult one. It seems to me that the representativesof the United Kingdom and Egypt have offered us an admirable way out of the difficulty which we are inat this moment. . l' should Iike to support the proposaI that whatever we do here should. not he considered asa precedent, that forther sfudy by the CoUrt, or by other means will be' riecessary belore a definitive solution·is reached. . M. (traduit face ficile. Royaume-Uni moyen remarquable nous nous trouvons J'appuie pa1. . comme internationale mes, poser une solution définitive. Présentement, position tant espdt cile deux .For the time being, we.can accept· the pro- . p~saI made ~y therepreseiltative of the United ~~dom. J. Co.tlfess, to my non.;legal mind, it 18 difficult. to see~llie.differertces between the twoproposals. 1· think the tWo representatives can probably . work out an· acceptable solution, Mr. VYSHINSKY (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): This question is indeed a most complicated one. When Mr. Noe1-Baker refe..'Ted to the regulations which were distributed at this table at the beginning of the meeting (document A/25), he mentioned rules 5 and 6, where it is stated that we may have as many ballots as are needed to obtain the required results. Paragl'aph 10 states that several ballots may be taken in the course of one meeting. The question is, what are these regulations? Are they compulsory for us, and who has prepared them? Are they a sufficient basis for interpretation of the Statute of the International Court of Justice? We should be prepared to ac~ cept them if they were in accordance with the provisions oî the Statute, but in my opinion they are not in conformity with the Statute, because' the Statute does not include several provisions which we find in document A/25. From the Iegal point of view, it is definite1y incorrect take as basis these' regulations in interpreting the Statute. On the contrary, it would be completely acceptable to make reference to the Statute in interpreting these regulations. 1 have just asked Mr. Noe1-Baker: "Who prepared these regulations?" and he replied that he did not know. 1 would bet that no one at this table knows who prepared these regulations. How, therefore, can we accept as a basis for discussion a document which has the support of no definite authority? Of course 1 understand that this document was prepared by the Secretariat, but 1 consider that it should be confirmed by an authoritative person or group of persons heforé it can be accepted as a basis for discussion. Ta return to the matter unèler discussion, which is to decide whether the present meeting is the second or the third, 1 propose that no decision should be taken, but that. the matter should be referred to experts for further consideration. Thus, at later meetings in which elections t~ke place, members of the International Coûrt of Justice will have a definite authoritative. pranouncement .on the basis which they can act. Today 1 shall confinemyself to consideration of the de facto situation, for, unless we deal with the matter practically, this discussion may continué endlessly.This matter really merits the consideration of a legal academy, and we are not a legal academy, we are the Security Coun- Let us take cognizance of the results of the third ballot, and perhaps we shalI find that we shall not have to call a third meeting. It may not be necessary for us to discuss the question Qf whether this meeting should be considered the second or the third. The theoretical aspects of this question are indeed complicated, and 1 feel inclined to accept some of the arguments put forward by Mr. Wellington Koo and Mr. Noel-Baker. But this is a question which really should be examined by legal experts. They should submit to us, in due course, the correct interpretation of the Statute of the International Court of Justice. 1 should like to suggest that we should make no precedents today, but return to the practical aspects of the question. • ot~ réellement socier M:M. d'être juristes à prétation tionale. aujourd'hm au semble que claire l'impression que présentement nous sommes vraisemblablement certains sur l'étions auparavant. admettent ne pourra pas être invoqué comme constitue, l'équ.îvalent troisième d1accord;dans

1 think that we have the matter very clear now. 1 think that the debate has been very useful. 1 feel that possibly we are very much better infonned upon certain of the very involved aspects of the particular question which we are now considering than we have been for sorne cons.iderable time. May 1 take it that the members of the Council accept this third 1?allot (to be regarded as without precedent) as eqmvalent to the third ballot and a third meeting, in conjunction with the fust result? Do 1 take it that is agreed to? Then that is adopted. - l'anglais) s?lution. SItôt rai Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): 1 am prepared to adopt that. But 1 shall want to make it clear that, as soon as we know the result, 1 want to move that we ask the Court for a ruling on this matter (an advisory opinion on this matter) and, in regard to what was said by the representative of the Netherlands, that we should make that proposal to the Assemhly for its consideration; and also that the Assembly should do the same. un~ tatif) .r.epré~ent,ant tion agirait dans le même sens. cialistes soviétiques) la Mr.' VVSHINSKY (Union of Soviet Socialist RepubUcs) (translated trom Russian): 1 support Mr. Noel-Baker's proposai. proclamer lieu

1 am about to declare the result of ~he ballot that was taken some time ago. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): 1 want ta ask this. If the Assembly does not come' ta a definite decision but considers going into a fourth meeting . . . : voudrais blée mais d'élection .Mr. NOE,L-BAKER(United Kingdom): The third ballot is .the thirdmeeting. We are now l'anglais troisième nant Candidates Votes Professor Bailey (Australia) . . • . • •. . •• Dr. Klaestad (Norway) •••••....•.•• Professor Verzijl (Netherlands) .• ".... Sir Mt:".1amèd Zafrullah Khan (India). Thereforè, 1 declare Dr. H. Klaestad, of Norway, who obtained eight votes, duly elected the Security Council for that second position the ballot we have taken this afternoon. Since that concludes the business for titis particular session of the Council,· 1 declare Council adjourned. Mr. NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom): fore the vote was announced,.1 gave notice that 1 wanted to move that we should propose to Assembly that we should àsk, either as separate bodies, or that the Assemb1y should ask for advisory opinion of the Court, when it is established, on: this point. ' Mr. VAN KLEFFENS (Netherlands): 1 second that proposal.

Do.1 take it that there common agreement on the suggestion which has been made by the representative of United Kingdom? If sa, then iris adopted. It hasbeen suggest.'ed to me that the President of th~ Assembly intimates tliat, if this Council were to remain in !ilession just a little longer, it is possible thatwe May be able ta complete the· business·that has beenunderour consideration today. ls it your wish that 1 suspend the .sitting, until such time .as it May be necessary toreconyene it, when we receiye some communication trom the President of the Assembly regarcling the progress .•of the situation in General Assembly? It is.extremely hard, 1 realize, upon the members of the Security Counci!, for we havebeen in. fairly constant session,and we are required .to. sit. again at 9 o'clock tonight. It is making tÎ'emendous demands upon the time ofrepresentatives in their application to tbis work hardlyknowwhat tosuggest to you) under circurnstances.. Mr. DEFREITAS-VALLl1. U~razi1): 1 suppose thatif we are to continueiliis matter of e1ection,.it would be toomuch.for us to stayand cast a ballpt? The matter could be dealtwith at our.sessiontomght atl)ineo'clock. The 'PRESIDENT: 1 think thereis reason believe tbat there may bea completion of this There was a sh~rt st/,Spension.

1 desire to advise the Cnuncil that 1 have received two communications from the President of the General As· sembly. The first reads as follows: "1 have the ·honour to infonn you that, in its third ballot for the election of judges for the International Court of Justice, one candidate, name1y Dr. juris KIaestfld of Norway, obtained an absolute majority of thirty votes. Mr. Williarski (Poland) obtained twenty-four votes and Mr. Bailey (AustraIia.) fifteen votes. The list of c~'"ldidates who obtained votes will be distributed to members' of the Security Council." The second reads: "1 have the honour to inforni you,that one seat remains to be filled on the International Court of Jwtice and that the General Asllembly, in the hope of completing the election totiight, will proceed to afourth ballot forthwith." 1 want tointimate that the desire of the Yresident of the Assembly is, of course,that we should still remainin session, but, seeing that we are mee~g again attiine a'dock, 1 feel that it may be possible at. ~at particular session to receive a report. The position' is'that tbis Couricil has'beèn in such long session that l feel very reluc~t to hold members of the Council any longer now. Mr. RIAz (Egypt): Since there -lsonly one seat left,'1 propose_that it wouid 110t take much _ of our timè if we start now, put it ta a vote, leayethe ballot papers tothe tellers and have the decisibn announced whenever it is ready,say, in' an hour or howevèdong it takes.

There isanother ballot in ,the Assembly. Mr. RIAz (Egypt) :·There is a request from the Assemblythat we go on., 1 consider that -nothing that.we -have. done 'constitutes a precedent and that, therefore, tomak~ matters easy~ we could ,proceedand vote_for the last remainQ inglleatand send the result to the Assembly,because it is waitjng to. go -on with its fourth , séance..J'es'time Mr~ NOEL-BAKER (United Kingdom) : 1 confess that 1 had ooderstood that we had reacbed a compromise agreeme.nt by which we were going to have three ballots, to caU them three «(meetings," and then to suspend the proceedings on election and to let the thing go ta a conference, under Article 12, in order that any place remaining vacant should he fi!led by that conference. There is one place remaining vacant. ,Under Article 12, the Assembly and the Security Cooocil are perfectIy competent toproceed to a fourth ballot, il fourtb. $(meeting," Ü they like, because the ward used in the fot:athline of Article 12 is the word umay." The Article says, in effect, that the conference may be formed at any time, at the request of either the General Assembly or the 6ecurity Council. Now, without consulting us, the Assembly has, in fact,' carried through a fQurth ballot. 1 should regret very much the fact that a preçedent should be established. that a fourth ballot could be canied through without a conference. 'But it·has now happened. Therefore, if again we say that we are not creating precedents at aIl but that we must :find a way out of what has become a complicated situation, then 1think gur 8În1plest procedure is. to do what o.ur Egyptian colleague says,namely, to hold another ballot (it will take us only fiveminutes) and see if tbat ends it. If that ballot does "not end the electiott, 1 think we must insist on a general conference with the Assembly at some time (a conference'between our Presidents) before we do anything else. 1 .think there has been a certainamountof, 1 will not say irregularity, but a certain amount Qf doubt.and confusion in our procedl..1re today. 1 thinkit is inevitable in the'creatiôn of an institution snch as ours. However, wereally.must make efforts to .avoid such confusion I,:1 time to come.

Iunderstand· that the Assembly hasco~pletecl ifs fourtb ballot, artd that if. we could. complete. qur fourth ballot on the tenns thàt have been·.suggestedbyMr. Noel- Baker,. that possibly wouId be the best way to simplify the sitm.ttion. It would take onlya matterof possibly five minqtes, whereasit would be rather. difficult ta. determine otherwise' the. time .atwhich we shou!d meet at any 0tller stage, and might, 1 am <tfraid; confuse the matter. May' 1 suggest~ then, •. that',we '.should proceed immediately to a fourth ballot. Mr. PASVaLSKY (U:rÏited States of America): It would not be possible for me to cast a vote. A vote will have to be cast by our representative, who, unfortunate1y, is not here. 1 suggest, therefore, that there be a receBS until ten minutes ta rune before the vote is taken.

It would seem that it would be very unfair ta take the ballot at this stage, seeing that the representative of the United States of America would not be ablé to cast bis vote. Itis suggested that we might adjourn until' ten minutes to nille, when we might then possibly conclude this vote. If there are no objections, 1 will take it that we shall adopt that course. Mr. R1Az (Egypt): 1 just w~t to say that it sMuld be clearly understood that we, the Security CounciI, will use our rights according to Article 12 to ask for a joint meeting to deal with the points if we do not get any result.

The representative of Bram has indicated that it is not convenient for certain of the representatives to be here again at a quarter ta nine. Therefore we wJght take this vote as the first businesS at nine 0'dock, in Church House. Sïnce that is agreeable to the Council, it is adopted.

The Security Council is in session. This evening we were progressing with the ballots that were essential for the election of judges ta the International Court of Justice, and we were awaitingsome information from the President of the Assembly concerning the result of a ballot that was then being taken for the fifteenth place in thatpanel of judges. 1 have received a comniunication that Mr. Winiarski of Poland has been selected by the Assembly. It will. nO~Tbe necessary for· this Security Council to proceed to vote for the selection of a person for thisfifteenthplace. Therefore, 1 wouldask the members of the Security.Council, who~ve their ballot papets before them, to.rememBér that the voting is for one person, and has to be done by placing a cross·at the righthand side of the. name. You.want to remember aIso those who have aIready been elected to the positions upon the Court, and the threepersons who were· ,withdrawn from the ballot .paper.. Then ypu can rnake your selectionfrom those who remain for this one position. The ·PRESID~NT: 1 give my assurance to thè Council that this vote, as one previous vote, is not ta he regarded as a precedent, but is a matter on which there will be some appeal ta the International Court ofJustice, with a view ta clarifying. the position. relating to these matters before the next eIection inay be required. Mx. VYSHINSKY (Union of Soviet Socialist RepubIics) (translated trom Russian): 1 should Iike to ask a question. l should Iike to obtain from the President anexplanation regarding the . question he has in mind when he says that the question will be transmitted ta the International Court of Justice. Ras he in mind the eIection of Mr. Winiarski, or has he in mind a more general question? H it is the question of the election of Mr. Winiarski, 1 sbould Iiketo know what the matteris. \ , The PREsm~NT: ln reply ta the representative ofthe Soviet Union, the questionhasnoth.. . ing todo .with the eIection of the •. gentleman from _Poland, but is a general question relating ta the interprétation,of the Charter. Itake it nowthat the members of theCouncU .wilIregister .theirvotes.',lwillask the tellers kindlyto present the ballotbox. . Mr.MoDZELEWSKI. (Poland) (trànslated fromFrenck): Consideringthatthe candidate in.questionîsa national·of my country,.'1 should Iike to be relieved of my duties as teller. Ta speak franldy, lhaveundergorie so muchc:motion .todayin cQnnejQon>with .theseeleètions that 1 would.ptefernothaveaÏ1y 1!lore. The PRE~IDENT: 1 tÎlink the te1Iers we have alreadyundertaking the dutieswill besufficient. Therefore, .the member éanberelieved, of .the part h~ 'hasbeen takingintiiesematters today. '. .... <Mr.PADI1:-LANERvO(M'exico)~ 1 do not h~v~.any other m~ber of~e:Mexicandelegat;ionta c,asi.' the vote. 1 wonder whether Imay 'en .~atelleratthe sametime.. •TlIe.PREsmE~:, Imay sayth~tin.th~ Assem.blY·ll.teIIer was allowed tQ vote,so th.atm .qlfÏtein or«ier. . TENTH MEETING . 46. Continuc1ion of discussion of the letter from the Acting Head of the Soviet· delegation 1 HeM at Church Bouse, Westminster~ London, on Wednesday, 6 Febrûary 1946, at 9.30 p.m. . President: Mr. N. J. o. MARIN (Australia) Present: The representatives of the following countries: Australia, B:razil, China, Egypt, France, Mexico, Netherlands, Polaud, Union of Soviet. Socialist Republics, United Kingdom, United States of America. .

1 wish ta make a statement to the Council that might possibly be accepte-d as a statement of the Couneil. 1 will just·read what 1 have in mind. 1 would suggest t'bat tlùs might .be a suitablestatement to be made by myself· as ,President of the Security Council. It reads as foilows: . ' . The Security Council hasheard statements by the Governments of the Soviet Union,the United Kingdom and Greece, which have greatly clarified the' position. 1 w~uld have Iiked .to have seen the matter disposed.of by a resolution,.but the matter Ilot having been declared a dispute, it will be sufficient for me to make a short summary of the position in the Cauncil as revealed· by .what has been saidatPrls table. The majority of the members .of the Council. have expressed their views,and in the President'sopinion it is the sense of the Council i:hafthe presence of British .troops in Gre.ece ·does not endangerthe maintenance. of intern.ational·peace _and security. It seems to me that the Council may now regard the matter as closed.The".only .coursenç'w open is to.proceed to .the ·next buSiness. . . 1 take itthatthatis thewish ofthe Council. Mr. VYSHINSKY ·.(Union of Soviet ·Socialist ~epublic~) (translated from.Russian): 1 am not Dl poss~Slonof the .tfo'.Jrt of the.statement or. draft statement-which the .President just read. But··1 can s~Y,:'6nthe b~is of.what l have heard, that the S~Vlet delegatton takes exception to such a " ~ 1,. . ,. .: .'.'. .' ... .y: .... 1See Ojficial Records of theSer;urity Council,First .ear, FirstSeries, Supplement No, 1; Annex 3•. ' .