S/PV.2037 Security Council

In accordance with the decision taken by the Council at the last meeting, I invite the representatives of Nigeria and Tunisia to take the places reserved for them at the side of the Council chamber. At the invitation of the President, Mr. Garba (Nigeria) and Mr. Mestiri (Tunisia) took the places reserved for them at the side of the Council chamber.

I should like to inform members of the Council that I have received letters from the rcpresentatives of Saudi Arabia and Togo, requesting that they should be invited to participate in the discussion of the question on the agenda. In accordance with the usual practice, I propose, with the consent of the Cound, to invite those representatives to participate in the discussion without the right to vote, in conformity with the relevant provisions of the Charter and rule 37 of the provisional rules of procedure. 3. In view of the limited number of places available at the Council table, I invite the representatives of Saudi Arabia and Togo to take the places reserved for them at the side of the Council chamber on the usual understanding that they will be invited to take a place at the Council table when they wish to address the Council. At the invitation of the President, Mr. Baroody (Saudi Arabia) and Mr. Kodjovi (Togo) took the places reserved for them at the side of the Council chamber.

I should like to draw the Council’s attention to document S/12424, which contains the text of a letter dated 24 October from the Permanent Representative of Finland to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. 5. The first speaker is the Commissioner for External Affairs of Nigeria. I welcome the distinguished Commissioner and invite him to take a seat at the Council table and to make his statement.

Mr. President, first of all, I should Iike to congratulate you on your assumption of the presidency of the Security Council for this month, particularly at a period when we are discussing such a serious problem, which affects world peace and security. There is no doubt in my mind that, under your wise guidance, the Council will achieve the purpose for which it has been summoned. 7. Last week, the international community learnt with great horror of a new wave of political and criminal repression by the racist minority Government of Vorster. Judged by the level of its brutality, the unprovoked crackdown on defenceless Africans, and even white liberals, in South Africa is not without parallel in South Africa’s chequered history. This is, however, another retrogressive step by the Vorster regime on the dangerous road towards a racial war in southern Africa. 8. My delegation contends that this crackdown is an embarrassment even to the fanatical supporters of the racists. It has been detiberately timed to further compound Pretoria’s ugly record of affront to the United Nations, of which South Africa claims to be a Member. The crackdown is an insult to the Charter of the United Nations, the principles of which the racists once committed themselves to uphold. Finally, these latest repressive acts represent a brazen contempt for the Security Council, which has the primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security. 10. The details of this blind crackdown on the African population are clear to everyone: the racist regime is not prepared to tolerate the slightest expression of opposition to apartheid. It is disturbing that some 150 blacks were arrested, among them Mr. Percy Qoboza, the black editor of The World newspaper, a paper which has the second largest circulation among Africans. Mr. Qoboza was re. portedly haled off to the same detention camp where Steve Biko was murdered in cold blood last month. We are equally appalled to learn that the white editor of the Daily Dispatch, Mr. Donald Woods, was also banned for five years. An undisclosed number of other blacks and whites were also banned and, in the absence of an official list, the figure for this category of victims may well be staggering. Both Mr. Qoboza and Mr. Woods have a reputation for fair reporting. In the case of Mr. Qoboza, this could not have been better demonstrated than by the relatively restrained manner in which his paper handled the tragic affair of Steve Biko. By arresting Mr. Qoboza and banning Mr. Woods, the racists have betrayed their inner instinct for vindictiveness and callousness against all semblances of opposition, for, in racist South Africa, a reputation for fair reporting auto. matically confers on the reporter the tag of communist agent or a subversive element. 11. The English-speaking newspapers have always been regarded as enemies by the so-called Nationalist Party since it assumed power in 1948. Then, as the new Government began to extend racial subordination, it assumed powers that restrained the potential for press opposition. Thirty years later, editors and reporters must constantly resort to legal advice to determine whom they can quote, what they can photograph and whether they are likely to invite indictment for any one of a dozen offences: from what has been blandly categorized as “promoting hostility between whites and blacks” to the now-familiar bogy of “furthering the objectives of communism”. 12. In the case of journals or organizations, banning means depriving so many people of their means of livelihood, That is what has happened to The World, the major black newspaper in circulation until last week. In the case of individuals, it amounts to a form of quasi-imprisonment. That is the fate being suffered by Mr. Woods and countless others. Formal arrest, which is what has happened to Mr. Qoboza, is infinitely worse since it means that he can be detained indefinitely without trial. In a characteristic display of arrogance, the Pretoria regime claims it is acting in the interest of the West and of the so-called free world. Ironically, the racist rCgime constitutes everything that can be described as the opposite of Western principles and ideals of civilized conduct in human relations. 14. I wish to reiterate that it is unacceptable that the racist regime in Pretoria should continue to hold the world to ransom. Fortunately, in spite of some of its inherent inadequacies, the Charter contains provisions which deal firmly with such an explosive situation as obtains at present in South Africa, a situation which constitutes a veritable threat to international peace and security. The Security Council has a special responsibility to humanity and should take prompt and concrete measures to arrest the present deterioration of the state of affairs in South Africa. 15. My delegation therefore will not be satisfied with a mere condemnation of the racists for their acts of brutality, repression and terrorism. This has been done several times before without any satisfactory effects on the racists at Pretoria. The Council should now move forward by imposing, particularly, an oil and arms embargo under Chapter VII of the Charter. All Member States, particularly friends of South Africa, should reinforce this measure by promptly halting new investments in South Africa and taking steps to dismantle their existing investments in that country. The situation in South Africa has assumed such serious dimensions as to make the mere act of recalling ambassadors inadequate. It is now incumbent on the Western Powers to take up Vorster’s challenge to their cherished principles and ideals. Indeed, it is time for all the big Powers to co-ordinate action designed to deal ade. quately with this deteriorating situation, if a racial conflagration is to be avoided. This is perhaps the last opportunity we have to prevent a racial war in that part of the world. We believe that, with the imposition of mandatory sanctions and strict adherence thereto, apartheid will be abolished in South Africa. 16. The Nigerian delegation hopes that all nations will perceive the danger signals and take appropriate measures. All nations that have been collaborating with the racists either in terms of trade or in the exchange of nuclear technology must review these relations. They must join in the concerted efforts of the international community to isolate South Africa. I sincerely hope that they realize how much their collaboration has helped to prop up the inhuman system of upartheid. We expect them also, apart from terminating all their links with the racists, to grant moral and material assistance to the liberation movements in their legitimate struggle to bring down the obnoxious system of apartheid and create an atmosphere of equality, freedom and human dignity for all races in the area. 18. Mr. I-IOUNGAVOU (Benin) (interpretation from French): The delegation of the People’s Republic of Benin sees nothing new in the present debate; it is merely a follow-up to the debate which took place in March 1977 and which was interrupted in conditions of which everyone is aware. 19. The African Group, faced with the most recent repressive measures adopted by the racist Vorster regime against the black African population of South Africa, wished to shake the Security Council out of the immoral inertia and unpardonable negligence that those who are supporting the racist regimes of southern Africa are trying to impose on it. That immoral inertia and that unpardonable negligence without doubt reflect the collaboration of the Western Powers with the regimes whose daily acts represent a serious threat to Africa and the international community. 20. The racist and minority regimes of southern Africa play a specific role in the machiavellian plan for the imperialistic encirclement of our continent, designed to bring our peoples to their knees and exploit our resources. 21. The truth is harsh, and the imperialists and their champions of all sorts do not-quite understandably-want us to unmask it. 22. What is the essence of the matter? I should like to recall the behind-the-scenes dealings, the dishonest manoeuvres and all the plots directed at the African Group in connexion with this question last March. The enemies of Africa stopped at nothing. They played their usual game of division in an attempt to pit Africans against Africans or against others, in order to prevent the Council, at the end of a very thorough debate, from taking measures against the racist Vorster regime that would be inconvenient to our enemies. 23. It is fortunate and even encouraging to see today that the African group, duly mandated by the whole of Africa 2 United Nations publication, Sales No. L77.XIV.3, annex IV. 24. For the time being, Africa is not waging open war against the regimes of Vorster and Smith. The four draft resolutions which the three African members of the Council have submitted (S/12309 to S/12312] and which some have tried in vain to “kill” are not a declaration of open war against Vorster’s regime, but those four drafts advocate very simple measures which to our mind have the advantage of demonstrating our firm solidarity with the oppressed people of South Africa. 25. Measures such as the arms embargo, the cessation of nuclear co-operation with the Pretoria regime and the ending of investment or any economic collaboration which strengthens the offensive potential of Pretoria are classic measures in line with the provisions of the Charter. We consider that all those measures would create an atmosphere of effective collective pressure on the racist regime of Pretoria. 26. My delegation believes that those measures as a whole, far from proving embarrassing to any party, can only hasten the peaceful and rapid settlement of the question of southern Africa. If some interpret those measures and their scope in a different way, that is clear proof that all the current negotiations run counter to the interests of Africa and are neither more nor less than a huge swindle, an imperialist sabotage operation, deliberately undertaken in order to divide Africa and dismantle the progressive forces of our continent. The People’s Republic of Benin and the people of Benin will never be parties to such machinations. 27. Africa wants peace. The resumption of this debate is proof that Africa wants a peaceful settlement of all the questions of southern Africa and will support unhesitatingly al honest initiatives. But Benin will denounce and fight, both within and outside the Council, against any plans designed to create a safety belt for the protection of the racist regime of Pretoria. 28. For the whole of Africa, the independence of Zimbabwe and Namibia is an essential prelude to the downfall of the Vorster regime. That is dialectical logic. 29. The delegation of the People’s Republic of Benin does not regard the present debate as hampering honest attempts to find just and satisfactory solutions to the problems of southern Africa. The friends of Africa will have no difficulty in understanding that. It is not in anybody’s interest to prolong the sufferings of the oppressed peoples of southern Africa.

Since the Security Council considered the question of 31. Not long ago, a horrible incident took place, in which Steve Bike, a South African black leader, was subjected to all kinds of brutal persecution in gaol by the South African authorities and tortured to death. 011 19 October, afm careful planning, the Vorster racist rCgime flagrantly closed down two newspapers of the blacks, banned the activities of 18 anti-apartheid organizations and arrested a large number of leaders of black people’s mass itWVeZrKmts all over the country in persecution ,and repression of the Azanian people. This is another grave, savage crime corn mitted by the South African authorities against the Azanian people since the Soweto massacre iast year. This 1~s been strongly condemned by a large number of African countries and their people as well as all the justice-uphoh.ling countries and people of the world, who are extremely indignant. 32. In recent years, with the powerful support of the entire African people and the people of the rest of the world, there has been a new upsurge in the struggle of the people of southern Africa against colonialism and racism. Under difficult and complicated conditions, the people of Zimbabwe and Namibia have persevered in armed struggle against colonialism and racism and for national independence and liberation, and have won continual victories. Defying brute force, the valiant Azanian people have unfolded a series of struggles against violent repression and against apartheid and racial discrimination. Recently, the black students’ campaign against the apartheid system of “Bantu education” has swept over the whole nation. The Vorster and Smith reactionary rdgimes have found themselves besieged on all sides and bogged down in great isolation and desperation. Under these circumstances, the handful of racists, with the support of the imperialists, are stepping up their counter-revolutionary dual tactics in nn attempt to save themselves from their imminent doom. 33. In Namibia, while declaring its “readiness” to settle the Namibian question through “negotiations”, the Vorstel racist rCgime is adamantly refusing to withdraw all its armed forces from the Territory in an attempt to force the Namibian people to lay down their arms and accept the so-called “free elections” at the point of the bayonet. 111 Zimbabwe, Vorster has kept on giving blood transfusions to Ian Smith, supporting the Smith r6gime in maintaining its tottering reactionary rule. In South Africa, while trulypeting the “improvement of the inter-racial relations” and “the granting of greater power to the urban black lleople”, Vorster and his ilk have been speeding up their bantustan plan and reinforcing their apparatus for violent repression in a redoubled effort to persecute and suppress the ALanian people. 34. Even the Vorster racist r@gime itself has to admit that its recent large-scale brutal repression is a carefully pre. meditated action taken after several weeks of preparation. All this has belied the so-called racial reconciliation and negotiated settlement advertised by the South African 36. The Chincsc Gt~vt:rnnic~it ;nid puclplt! firmly supjIM the people of Azania, Naniihia and %irnhallwc in their just struggle ilg9iIlSt iInpt’ri;llisIll. ucdorlialisln. rilcisln alld hegcmonism and for ~lillill~l~ll lil~rr~lli~ui :lrld illilcpcndetlcc. The Chiiiesc ilcle~:;ition stroii~!1y ~~ond~~n~~~s the South African racist rt$imc l”or tllc 1l0v suit5 (11‘ Krwc criacs it has conunittcd recently :l[!iliIlSt tllc A/Man [“ople. WC firmly support the just positions expr~~ssc~tl 1,~. the Africen States. WC hold tll:rt tllc Srcurity (‘~,uncil slrciultl adOpt II resolution to condeinn strrm$y tllc iltrOLZitiC% ciuninittcd bY tllc South African ;lutlloritics, impose ;I m;niil:~tory arms embargo illltl ccoiiomi~ silll~tio~ls ii!:ilillSt SoUtll Africu, fllld call 011 illl (;ovcrnmcnls and pt:oplcs to rcndcr p0wcrfill support Lllld &WiStilllfX to tllL1 pCop1C of’ AL;llliil :lIltl thC rest of soiithcrn A.l‘liCil in their ius slru!y;lc for iidopc~ltlCllC~ and lilxx:itim~. 37. III tllC final analysis, the ;ltrclt;itiCS comniittctl bY Vorstcr illlll company ;lrc bound to serve ilS ;I ncgtltive example, which will further cnh:inse rlic political COll. sciousness Of tllc pooplc of Az;llli;l ilIl(l tllc rest ol’SWlthCrI1 Africa and enable them to r<alizc more clearly that there ShOllld bc no illusions ahout the most reactionary COI@ nialists and IWiStS and tllilt indcpendeilcc ilIl(l M~cratioll COI1 be won only by strcngthcning unity alItI persevering in struggle. 38. AS pointed out in :I resolution ildt\lTtcd at its ti+‘elltY seventh session by tlic (“o~lncil 01 Mijlistcrs of the Owni. zation of Africotz [J&y: ‘%c Only cffectivc guarantee fi)r tllc African people 0f South Africa against the repetili(n~ of t[lc ~YulSSilCWS is the ~aunclhg of the armed struggle for the seizure of power by the pcop~c”. On 21 October, OAtJ issued iI press rclcase on the atrocities ~O~~~~itted hy the South Afric;ln ;l~~tjl()ritics in which it

The next speaker is the representative of Saudi Arabia. I invite him to take a place at the Council table and to make his statement.

In congratulating you, Sir, on your assumption of the presidency of the Security Council, I would indeed be congratulating myself. You are such a close friend that it would be superfluous and embarrassing to you to tell you not only how much I esteem you but also how much affection I have for you. Not because you belong to Asia-for, after all, there may be others who are as close to me who do not come from that continent-but indeed because an Arabic proverb applies to our relationship. That proverb says: “How many a good brother I have who was not born of my mother”. You are one of those brothers. Whenever 1 want, to seek advice I exchange views with you and I always benefit. You are younger than I in years but undoubtedly much more mature in wisdom. 41. Having said that, I believe it is incumbent upon me to speak on the question of South Africa, because we have been seized of this question since the days of Lake Success, but more intensely during the 1950s when we started to elaborate the principle of self-determination into a fullfledged right. It took some of us about seven or eight years to do so and, fortunately for us, we succeeded, because the right of self-determination appears as the first article in both the International Covenants on Human Rights. 42. But what is the use of having covenants on human and other rights if a Member State like South Africa does not observe the right of people, the right of the majority, the right of those who are really the indigenous people of that part of Africa? It is superfluous to come here, year in and year out, to talk about South Africa and to condemn it, as if to get things off our chest, and then do nothing. 43. One could say: “Well, it is better to talk than go to war”. That is true in the field of disarmament and in many other fields of the United Nations. But here we are accomplishing nothing with regard to South Africa. No doubt there were earnest efforts on the part of the Secretary-General and previous Secretaries-General to handle the matter discreetly, and there is no doubt that the Governments of the major Powers have taken the initiative to do something about it. I do not say they have done so “half-heartedly”. Take, for example, the United States, which recently sent our brother and colleague, its United Nations Ambassador, to talk to Mr. Vorster. Of course, they are a major Power. I do not think Mr. Vorster would be on speaking terms with the Soviets, because, after all, he is frightened that the Communists will pervade his country. That is understandable, but those who more or less have direct financial interests with Russia have, no doubt, been bringing laudable pressure and have been making praiseworthy interventions-not in the affairs of the Soviet 4.5. What shall we do’! A lot can be done, provided there is goodwill and the pursuit of a plan-not that I have discovered one; not that I have a copyright on one, but because I think one might work, with goodwill, taking into account Vorster and, as our colleague from China mentioned, “his ilk”. I will come to that. 46. Having given you a preface to the effect that it is futile to go on meeting like this without any result, I say that we have to have a big breakthrough. Here I have before me-1 have read them very carefully-four of what I would call factual draft resolutions that were submitted last March by none other than my friends from Benin, Libya and Mauritius [S/12309 to S/12312]. And, I must say, they were wise in breaking down the whole subject into four different sections: the first deals with the release of prisoners; the second with the threat to international peace; the third with the arms embargo; the fourth with the economic aspect-how to apply sanctions. I think those delegations were wise, instead of putting those elements into one draft resolution, to see what could be done separately under each of the titles that are presumed to sum up the substance of these draft resolutions. 47. But even then, let us examine what is being done today. Taking them at random, here I have the draft resolution on the financial, or economic, question. Now, dispassionately and objectively, I want to tell my African friends that certain Powers-without naming them-have economic interests in South Africa, and, as you know, we are now confronted not perhaps with a recession but with quite a depression in this, the host country, as weI as in Europe. Except in the case of our Japanese and German friends, I think the world is in economic disarray. They seem to know how to balance their budgets and tighten their belts. 48. Incidentally, I must say here parenthetically that what I said about you, Mr. President, applies also to Baron von Wechmar in having served the Council last month very efficiently, and in the best German manner. So better Iate than never in extending my thanks. 49. Without breaking the thread of my thought, I might add that the so-called democracies-although many of them are democracies by subscription and contributions, since 50. Then, what is the answer to this financial question? Do not attach too much importance to it. That is why I said that, although the intent of the four draft resolutions before me is iaudable in that they represent an attempt to grapple with the issues to see what can be done, I did not think that from the economic and financial point of view much could be done, except perhaps very gradually. And, frankly, I am sick of this gradual, step-by-step diplomacy. As I mentioned, if we were to go to the door step by step, and each step took five years, good Lord, in 30 years we would not have finished with this problem which is before us. 51. Now we come to the release of prisoners. One of those draft resolutions deals with that. Of course, they should be released by the South African r6gime. But is it reasonable for the Government of South Africa, misguided as it is, to release those prisoners and leave them at large to work there against the rCgime? It is unthinkable that they would; not only they, but any country that thought such prisoners were dangerous would not set them free. 52. Therefore, what shall we do about them? Did the United Nations think for a moment that it might perhaps be wise-of course it would be wise-or possible to have those prisoners released and to find asylum for them to continue their work for liberation, especially in the countries where financial and economic aid is being extended to the South African regime? They would be the torch-bearers of the liberty and the freedom of their own people. Why do we not ask our illustrious Secretary-General to negotiate such a release by saying: “All right, you South Africans, you are afraid that if they are released they will create trouble. Give them to us, the United Nations, and we will place them, some in England, some in the United States and in other countries.” Perhaps there should be some activism to influence the people of those countries that are extending aid, under pressure, I must say. The Governments are to be praised; they are extending financial and economic aid because of pressure from certain groups. To whom? To South Africa. They can discontinue it if they want to maintain their political positions in their own respective countries. 54. Now the third subject dealt with in these draft resolutions is the disturbing of the peace in the region. This is factual; this is taking place. Look at what is happening in Rhodesia. Look at what is happening in South West Africa, Namibia; look at what is happening in neighbouring countries. The people are all longing to do something for the blacks in South Africa. Can we quiet these things by resolution? I submit that we have been trying to do that, but we have not yet succeeded. 55. Last but not least is the arms embargo. I have lived through two world wars and I remember how I used to read about a certain gentleman-considered as such because our British friends knighted him-called Basil Zaharoff, who became Sir Basil Zaharoff. He was of Greek origin and lived on the Riviera. He manipulated the arms trade, not only in Europe but anywhere where filthy lucre was to be had from that trade. Someone wrote a book about Zaharoff in the 193Os, entitled Les marchands de mart. He is gone now, but there are others who are merchants of death. There are hundreds of Zaharoffs today. Zaharoffs activities were negligible in comparison with what we are witnessing today in arms smuggling, arms peddling, sometimes covertly, but most often overtly. Anyone who wants to buy arms only has to read Anthony Sampson’s latest book, The Arms Bazaar,3 with the subtitle: “From Lebanon to Lockheed”. I read it two months ago, the same week it appeared, to refresh my memory, and I learned a lot of what goes on. So, without going into further details, I can say that the arms embargo will not work out, because there will always be smuggling. 56. In 1929, when I was a young man of 24, I learned from my French, German and English friends in Europe that a small State, in fact Luxembourg, or rather not the State as such but the people in the State, were selling not arms but the raw material of armaments, steel, to both the central Powers on the one hand, that is, the Germans and Austrians and so forth, and the so-called Allies, meaning France and Britain, on the other. So how can we hope for any results from embargoes? 57. I said that we might get results if our Secretary. General were to negotiate the release of those who are in prison. All right, then we are where we started. How can we solve the problem? Now I am going to suggest something radical, from my humble experience about these matters. It may be that some of my ideas will be deemed unpopular, especially with some of the intransigent African groups. If intransigence brings any results, I will, at my advanced age, 3 The Viking Press, New York, 1977. 58. First of all, Namibia should be declared free, so that any black who is disgruntled can go and live freely in Namibia. I hear that it has a lot of resources and a sparse population. What is the idea of maintaining that Mandate? There are no mandates any more. We should impress on Vorster and on those who have the same views that they cannot keep Namibia under their rule and that it should have an open door; but those who support him should be assured-those whites who have certain economic interests--that those interests will not be jeopardized. It is for the benefit of the blacks that it should be so because, until the blacks can establish themselves there, they must learn from the whites. The blacks have had no chance to develop industry like the whites. So they should learn from them. If the whites want to live in peace, what is wrong? Leave them, let them live there, but in an independent Namibia. That is the first step, to work on the independence of Namibia right away and to open the doors of Namibia to all blacks who do not wish under any circumstances to live in South Africa. That is the first step to be taken. 59. I do not watch television, but somebody has told me that Vorster is going to appear on television here in the United States. Somebody went out to South Africa and he was interviewed on television. I watched the man and his interlocutors very carefully. Vorster and his people are frightened people, and they are so self-righteous that they will fight with their backs to the wall if need be, and the fight will be protracted because we cannot enforce any arms embargo. Do you know what it will mean? They will sacrifice their own people, the whites and many innocent blacks. Many of the whites are innocent, but have been brainwashed, like other people can be brainwashed. 60. I wish Gandhi could be resuscitated. If only the blacks, instead of boycotts and arms, could use non-violent resistance. Then the whites would give in, because it would be an economic question. But we do not have a Gandhi there, although he used to be there in his early days. 61. Therefore, we must remember that they will fight with their backs to the wall, it will be a protracted tight because they will be receiving surreptitious aid, financial as well as arms aid from abroad, The thing to do would be to talk on the following basis with them. Leave aside apartheid; we talk about apartheid, racial discrimination and all other forms of discrimination in the Third Committee. We should 62. These are what I consider to be practical solutions. But if you want to spin in circles, then I think next year at about this time we shall be having another set of draft resolutions which, however constructive, are inoperable when they are adopted, because there is a lot of talk but little action on the part of those who wield world power. Those who wield world power do not want a confrontation. I am sure there is a sense of justice on the part of the Americans and I am sure-although I am a monarchist-that the Russians are committed to support anyone who is oppressed. They did it in their own country, so why should it not spill over into Africa? But they do not want any confrontation, those two super-Powers. They do not want confrontation because something might get out of hand and they would destroy themselves and us, who are on the periphery. Therefore, instead of amicably trying to do things which will bear fruit, jointly, what do they do? They have wars in their spheres of influence and small countries are the victims. It is nauseating even to mention it, but that is what is taking place. Let us appeal to the super-Powers to see what can be done, drastically, in order to liberate the blacks in South Africa. Forget your SALT4 talks! 63. We want results, otherwise you blacks will say that we are full of hot air. We are not full of hot air, but do not believe that what is being told you by the major Powers -not wilfully on their part but as Governments-isnot hot air itself. We want action and fewer resolutions. 64. I should like to reserve my right to continue-not today, because one of my African brothers, who asked me if I would speak before he did and who is one of the freedom fighters, wants to address the Council. I do not think that he will take more than half an hour, and, after all, members should use the time of the Council and of the General Assembly profitably lest our Secretary-General should have to act with regard to the budget. We are wasting a lot of time. 65. Having spoken thus, I hope, should I see fit, to resume the discussion, not with a prefabricated speech but with what comes from my humble experience.

The next speaker is Mr. M. J. Makatini, to whom the Council extended an invitation at its last meeting under the terms of rule 39 of the provisional rules of procedure. Accordingly, 1 invite him to take a seat at the Council table and to make his statement. 67. Mr, MAKATINI: Mr. President, our delegation attaches a great deal of importance to the fact that this 4 Stratedc Arms Limitation Talks. 68. The strong ties that bind the peoples of South Africa and India are well known to historians and international statesmen. Our two peoples have for centuries f0ught against a common enemy and for a common goal-the right to self-determination, As part of the British imperialist exploitation, at some stage, between 1860 and 1866, about 6,300 indentured Indians were transported to Natal, South Africa, from Madras and Calcutta, Little did the British colonialists realize that they were forging a situation that has resuhed in the celnenting of unbreakable brotherhood and solidarity between our two peoples. This has manifested itself in various forms, especially in the active role played by Mahatma Gandhi in the struggle against racial discrimination in South Africa, as well as in the fact that, at the very inception of the United Nations, India requested the inscription on the agenda of the problem of white supremacy in South Africa. 69. I am pleased to say that the oppressed South African people of Indian origin have remained loyal to this tradition. Under the leadership of the African National Congress, they continue to fight shoulder to shoulder with the African and Coloured peoples, as well with a steadily growing number of white democrats. One of them, Mat Maharaj, a well-known veteran of this struggle, a few days ago had the opportunity to petition the Special Committee against Apartheid on the occasion of the Day of Solidarity with the South African Political Prisoners.5 This was after his recent escape from restriction following the termination of 12 years of imprisonment on Robben Island, in the same section as such of our illustrious leaders as Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Mbeki, Ahmed Kathrada, the latter also of Indian origin, and Arthur Goldberg, a white, for whom the beginning of the forthcoming General Assembly debate on the question of apartheid on 7 November will mark the fifteenth anniversary of their condemnation to life imprisonment on Robben Island. 70. Mr. President, because of your country’s resolute and unrelenting fight against upartheid, as well as your personal commitment and experience, we are confident that, under your presidency, the Council will adopt prompt and far-reaching punitive measures commensurate with the challenge before the international community today, thereby restoring the waning credibility of the Organization. 71. At this stage, I should like to depart briefly from my prepared statement. In keeping with African tradition, we have always been brought up to respect our elders. I speak following the representative of Saudi Arabia, who has, 1 believe, in good faith put before the Council what he considers pragmatic resolutions of the problem. l should be failing in my duty if I did not state that for the blacks in South Africa the principle of the right to self-determination was as precious as it is all over the world, and if I did not also recall that this principle of the right to self-determlnation of the South African people had been endorsed by 5 A/AC.lIS/SR.353. 72. This series of Security Council Incetings has been convened at the request of the 49 African Member States. We sincerely appreciate this swift action which undoubtedly is hailed throughout the length anti breadth of the African continent and welcomed by the justice-loving forces in the capitalist countries, and which enjoys the active support of the peoples illld Governtnents of the non-aligned and socialist countries. The African National Congress sees it as proof of Africa’s detenninatiun, at this decisive stage of our struggle, not t0 rcmnin idle in the face of Vorster’s unfolding programme of repression in South Africa and aggression beyond its borders, in preparation for what he described in the ultimatum he put in 1974 to the international community to accept Pretoria’s qxuT/lcid or face an alternative “too ghastly to contemplate”, as well as what he threatened in the wake of the 1067 Israeli aggression, when he declared: “Israel ate up the Arabs before breakfast; we can eat up black Africa before lunch”. 73. The gravity 0f the subject before the Council today is without parallel. The closest cxa~~q~le one cat1 think of can only be of a hypothetical nature: humanity would probably have been saved from the holocaust into which it was plunged during the last world war if, in the 193Os, Adolph Hitler had dared to throw down so open a challenge to the international community as John NdthaLar Vorster has done. For the benefit of those who might be inclined to find this equation an exaggeratinn, it is important to recall not only the ideological affinity and alliance of these racial bigots, but also that, if Hitler was better armed, his arsenal was not half as sophisticated as Vorster’s and definitely excluded nuclear weapons. Vorster’s internment for his part as the General of the Osscwa Brandwaag, a secret fifthc0lumn organization with a membership of 250,000, as well as his statement in 1942 that his organizatian stood for Christian nationalism-called fascism in Mussolini’s Italy and national socialism in Hitler’s Germany--must be borne in mind in considering the urgency of the action to be taken by the Council. 74. Like Ambassador Mahmoud Mestiri, the representative of Tunisia and spokesman of the African Graup, I do not intend to dwell on the countless barbaruus criInes that have been committed and continue to be committed by the V0rster r&me in the alleged defence of Christha& Western and white civilization and as the alleged bulwark against the so-called penetration of communism in Africa, as Vorster 75. In sounding a warning to the Western countries that to this day are still tlying to adjust to the situation in Angola and Mozambique, where they backed the losing horses by supporting Portuguese colonialism and later the puppet organizations, I shall quote our President, Oliver Tambo. Addressing the World Conference for Action against Apartheid held at Lagos, he declared: “The racists and Fascists in southern Africa for the time being enjoy the support of what they regard as powerful forces. However, we are armed with a just cause and a will to be free. Behind the struggle of our people for the seizure of power we have the peoples of the world represented at this Conference, the invincible concerted international support of the anti-racist, anti-imperialist and anti-Fascist forces of the world, composed of the democratic, socialist and progressive peoples and States.” 76. 1 should like at this stage to affirm, in the name of the African National Congress, that support of our organization is support for the establishment of a democratic and non-racial South Africa, as enshrined in the Freedom Charter. The Freedom Charter, which I request the permission of the President to circulate to members of the Council (see S/12425], was adopted by the oppressed people for the establishment of a just and equitable society. It states, among other things, that South Africa belongs to all those who live in it and that no government can justly claim authority unless it is based on the will of all the people. 77. If the murder of Steve Biko, the detention of Percy Qoboza and Donald Woods and the banning of all nonviolent organizations known to some leading Western diplomats do not prove the Fascist character of the Vorster regime, I can only repeat what I once said to Ambassador Andrew Young, that is, that if his activities as a civil rights leader in the South had been carried out in South Africa against apartheid he would have been incarcerated in Robben Island, convicted under either the Suppression of Communism Act or some other Draconian legislation. For. “to initiate measures aimed at bringing about racial harmony based on equality in order to ensure that the present situation does not continue or recur, and to abandon its policies of apartheid and racial discrimination”. /Resolution 134 (1960).] 79. In 1963, in its resolution 181 (1963), the Council did not stop at strongly deprecating the poIicies of South Africa in its perpetuation of racial discrimination but went further and called upon it to liberate all persons imprisoned, interned or subjected to other restrictions for having opposed the policy of apartheid. It also solemnly called upon all States to cease forthwith the sale and shipment of arms, ammunition of all types and military vehicles to South Africa. 80. In the same year, in its resolution 182 (1963), the Council expressed the conviction that the situation in South Africa seriously disturbed international peace and security. 81. In its resolution 282 (1970), after recalling its resolutions on the arms embargo, the Council expressed the conviction that the situation resulting from the continued application of the policies of apartheid and the continued South African acquisition of arms and military equipment from a number of Member States and by local manufacture of arms and ammunition under licences constituted a potential threat to international peace and security. Further, it recognized that the extensive arms build-up of the military forces of South Africa posed a real threat to the security and sovereignty of independent African States opposed to the racial policies of the South African regime, in particular the neighbouring States. 82. In its resolution 3 11 (1972), the Council recognized the legitimacy of the struggle of the oppressed people of South Africa in pursuance of their human rights as set forth in the Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and called upon all States to observe strictly the arms embargo against South Africa. 83. Finally, in its resolution 392 (1976), the Council strongly condemned the South African regime for its resort to massive violence against and killings of the African people including schoolchildren and students and others opposing racial discrimination, and reaffirmed that the policy of apartheid was a crime against the conscience and dignity of mankind and seriously disturbed international peace and security. 84. The countless condemnations of and appeals to the South African regime by the international community through the United Nations have been ignored with impunity, The same goes for the appeals to some States which have continued their economic, diplomatic and 85. To the overwhelming majority of Member States -except for the major trading partners, some of whom have increased their military collaboration with the Pretoria r6gime by furnishing it with licences which enable it to be virtually self-sufficient in the production of war equipment and supplying it with the technological know-how for producing atomic weapons-the South African rdgime constitutes a threat to peace and international security. This position of the Western countries has become indefensible in the light of the rbgime’s new Defence Act, in terms of which it arrogates to itself the right to intervene militarily in all African countries south of the equator. Its bellicose position, which went to the extent of dismissing the President of the United States as irrelevant, and indeed saying this of all the countries that have hitherto delayed action by the international community on the basis that they have the collective leverage to exert pressure on Vorster, must be seen against the background of its nuclear capability. It is now up to the Western countries to take the initiative by expanding the punitive measures provided for in the four draft resolutions submitted by Benin, Libya and Mauritius on 29 March this year /S/12309 to S/12312/. 86. We welcome the proposals made by Ambassador Mahmoud Mestiri and other speakers, such as the representative of Benin, that nothing less than the immediate imposition of economic sanctions and a mandatory arms embargo, as well as the oil embargo, would be an adequate response to the challenge facing the international community. As Ambassador Mestiri has correctly pointed out, despite the fact that the Vorster rdgime has launched a war of aggression against the oppressed South African people, relying upon weapons from the West, we are not asking the Western countries to send troops to South Africa. As our President said at Lagos: “Our people, under the leadership of the African National Congress, recognize and accept the challenge with which history has confronted us. Our revolution can only be the product of our own efforts and we shall not shirk our duty. The assistance and support we ask of the world, by implementing these proposals, can help create more favourable conditions for victory which cannot be denied our people,” 87. In conclusion, I wish to say that today the attention of the world is focused on the deliberations at this meeting, and we are confident that the Council will rise to the expectations of progressive mankind. 88. Mr, RAMPHUL (Mauritius): I had not planned to speak this morning, but I listened very attentively-as I always do-to the statement of Ambassador Baroody of 89. Incidentally, I wonder why Saudi Arabia, whose wealth, resources and size are not by any means unequal to those of Namibia, has not yet offered a homeland to the Palestinians? Such an offer would perhaps solve a rather thorny problem. Perhaps, also, overpopulated areas of the world, like India for example, could be relieved by installing Indians in larger, wealthier and less populous countries like the United States, for example. 90. I agree that there is a maldistribution of wealth, land and population in the world. In that respect the proposal made by Ambassador Baroody-if I understood him correctly-makes some sense. But I wonder whether the United States and European countries would wish to harbour indefinitely in their respective territories an army of African liberation fighters determined to topple the racist regime of Vorster and to regain possession of political power in their native homeland? 91. I believe that Ambassador Baroody’s proposals are wise but, to my mind, they are far from practical. I would welcome an opportunity to discuss this matter privately with him.

As members of the Council are aware, Ambassador Baroody did reserve his right to make a further statement. I invite him to take a place at the Council table to address us in continuation of his earlier statement.

I have asked to be allowed to exercise my right of reply because certain things have been attributed to me that I did not say. 94. 1 am addressing myself to the gentleman, the freedom fighter, from South Africa and to my good friend Ambassador Ramphul. 95. I said that there should be an independent black African State inside South Africa and that we should start with Namibia, because some people would want to seek their fortune in Namibia. I did not say that all the blacks in South Africa should go to Namibia. I said anyone who was disgruntled in the meantime could go there. 96. If Ambassador Ramplzul read the record he would not be so sarcastic as to mention the Palestinians, nor should the other gentleman have spoken as if I were taking Vorster’s side. On the contrary, I said that, as a first step to show its goodwill, the Vorster regime should liberate Namibia and that if anybody was disgruntled he could go there and perhaps work for the liberation of the other 97. Ambassador Ramphul, show me where I said that the blacks in South Africa should all go to Namibia. My dear friend, you are just playing politics with that gentleman who addressed us before you and who spoke as if I wanted to see all the blacks sent to Namibia. I never said that. Why have you attributed that to me? I am not that simple. I know that there are millions and millions of blacks who would not want to leave South Africa, and they have a right to stay there. 98. But what about 1848 in Europe? Many in Europe were disgruntled and came to the United States. Does that mean that everybody who was disgruntled should have come to the United States? 99. Incidentally, between 1815 and 1848 there was detente, a bogus detente; things were brewing in the United States. TaJIeyrand and Metternich created a sort of detente and many people thought it was just to calm them down. They had a series of revolts, and many Europeans left for the United States. Does that mean that they should not have left? Does that mean that, once Namibia has been granted independence, if some in South Africa want to go to Namibia, they should not be allowed to go there if they find that the white regime still lords it over them? Why distort the facts-just because you want the situation to continue? But with what result? With your resolutions, with all due respect? 100. Why does my good friend from Mauritius of all people say that I implied that all the blacks from South Africa-as though I said all the blacks-should emigrate to Namibia? I said that, to show the regime’s goodwill, the first thing we should now do is liberate Namibia and that anyone who is disgruntled should go there and work for the liberation of the blacks who are there. 101. Will you take the blacks in Mauritius if we try to liberate them’? I do not think you would dare, because you are afraid they would upset your regime. 102. Why drag in the Palestinians? That was an ill-chosen illustration. The Palestinians had a home and a State, and they will fight for it till doomsday. If I “got hooked” on the United Nations-I came only to organize the Mission of Saudi Arabia, after which I was to go back to my m&‘erthe thing that “hooked” me was the Palestinian question, because J thought it was an unjust situation. And you say Saudi Arabia should open its doors. Open your doors to the freedom fighters of South Africa. No, you do not dare. Please, next time-all of you-take care what you say when I make a statement, You cannot take it out of context. Although you are my friend-even if you were my brother, from my own mother-I would take issue with you. Who do you think you are? 103. J knew King Faisal for 42 years. He was a torchbearer of black African freedom. The white South Africans wanted to have an office for the pilgrims in Juddah, and they pleaded with me to tell King Faisal to have Moslem blacks open an office-under the aegis, of course, of South

I think it might be desirable for all of us to read the verbatim record of the statement made by the representative of Saudi Arabia before rushing in to reply to him. 10.5. Mr. RAMPHUL (Mauritius): I can assure Ambassador Baroody that I meant no sarcasm, because I feel for the Palestinians as strongly as does Ambassador Baroody. I am relieved that my misgivings have been dispelled. As I said at the beginning of my statement, I did not quite grasp what Ambassador Baroody was actually expressing. I am grateful to him for having clarified the point.

I call on the representative of Saudi Arabia.

I think, Sir, besides your being President-and a wise one at that-your advice is the best: people should not rush to conclusions before they read the verbatim record. But I must repeat again and again and again that I never insinuated or intimated that the South African blacks should be herded into Namibia, according to the impression that was formed by some. I was thinking of the freedom fighters, but I do not have to mention everything that they could do in Namibia. They could work, and they could also fight for those compatriots of theirs who are still there clinging to their rights. 108. If I spoke in an unorthodox fashion, it is because the orthodox fashion has not got us anywhere. I was trying to make a breakthrough. And remember that we are aI1 committed to the Charter; we are not merely representatives of our respective countries. We should be loyal to the Charter. I spoke as a Member of the United Nations, not only as the representative of Saudi Arabia. J guess this is why we applaud Ambassador Young whenever he gives us a piece of his mind that may not perhaps conform to the well-tailored sartorial fashions of his Government. We applaud him. And now I am not imitating Ambassador Young: J preceded him in giving my views, long before he was appointed Ambassador. But because Ambassador Young represents a big country, you only whisper. Why do you not take issue with Ambassador Young? You take issue with a friend of yours. “I put you behind me on the horse.” That is an Arabic proverb. If YOU want, you can see what there is in the saddle and take whatever you want, but do not throw me from the horse. You cannot do that, any one of you, even Mr. Ramphul: I know how to ride the horse. I knew what I was talking about, so do not insinuate. J am for the freedom of the blacks of South Africa, but I have been trying to “break the ice”; I have the right to do so as a representative of a State Member of the United Nations. And no hard feelings: 1 forgive you. Ti?e meeting rose at I. 15 p.m. HOW TO OBTAIN UNITED NATIONS PUBLICATtONS United Nations publications may be obtained from bookstores and distributors throughout the world, Consult your bookstore or write to: United Nations, Sales Sectian, New York or Geneva. COMMENT SE PROCURER LES PUBLICATIONS DES NATIONS UNIES Les publications des Nations Unies sont en vente dans les librairies et les agences depositaires du monde entier. Informez-vous aupres de votre libraire ou adressez-vous a : Nntions Unies, Se&ion des ventes, New York ou Genbve. KAK I-tOJIY’IHTb HB~AWHR OPI’AWW%4l&dH OG’bE~HHEH?thIX HAIWR %bAaHHS Qpranu3aLutu 065eAHHeHHblX HaqnR momHO lcynmb B KHHXHMX Mara- SWHQX N areHTCTBaX BO scex pairOHaX mepa. HaaoaHTe CnpaBXH 06 H3AaHnffX B saurem K~amnom ~wa?,me unw nnwHTe no aapecy : Oprannsann~ 06neA~neHna1x Hauwk, Celtq~~ no npo~axce H~&UIHR, Hsro-Fiopr: WIH Wenesa. COMO CONSEGUlR PUBLICACIONES DE LAS NAClONES UNIDAS Las publicacioncs de las Naciones IJnidas eatin en venta en librerias y casas distribuidoras en todas pa&s de1 mundo. Consulte a su librcro o dirijase a: Naciones Unidas:Seccirjn de Ventas. Nueva York o Ginehra. Litbo in United Nations, New York Price: $U.S. 1.00 (or equivalent in other currencies) 77-70001-October 1978-2,200