S/PV.444 Security Council

Thursday, Sept. 15, 1949 — Session 4, Meeting 444 — UN Document ↗ OCR ✓ 27 unattributed speechs
This meeting at a glance
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The President unattributed #155219
Before taking up the agenda, I would draw the .attention of the members of .the Council to the fact that, as I suggested at the end of our last meeting, the system of simultaneous interpretation has been prepared for our use. Unless there is any objection, I would propose that we might use the system of l5i~ultaneous interpretation, which certainly saves a good deal of our time. I should like to hear if there is any objection to that proposal. Mr. CHAUVEL (France) (translated from French): In view of the circumstances and of our anxiety to finish our work, I will not raise .any objection to the use of simultaneous interpre- . tation. Nev~rthe1ess, I would like to make it clear that I hope this will not constitute a precedent, but will be regarded as an exceptional case.
The President unattributed #155222
I thank the representative of France and I take note of his reservation. As I hear no other objection, we will proceed with the use of simultaneous interpretation and I request the Secretariat to arrange for it.
The system of .rimultaneOU$ interpretation was adopted at this point.

2. Adoption of the agenda

The agenda was adopted.

3. Admission of new Members (continued)

The President unattributed #155228
We have already had some discussion on· item 2 of the agenda. We have reached the stage at which there· is before the Council a draft resolution submitted by the delegation of the Soviet Union, contained in documeht Sj1340jRev.2, reading as follows: tlHaving considered the applications of Albania, the Mongolian· People's Republic, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Finland, Italy, Portugal, f) Communications, en date des 12 octobre et 9 nov{mbre 1948, adressees au Seere- taire general par le Gouvernement de la Republique }.:opulaire de Roumanie et CGn- cernant la demande d'admission de la Rou- manie corrime Membre des Nations Unies (S/1051 et S/105l/Add.1). l 3. Lettre, en date du 29 juillet 1949, adressee au President du Conseil de securite par le Presi- devt de la Commission de l'ene,gie atomique (S/]377). Le PRESIDENT (tradttit de l'anglais): Avant d'aborder l'ordre du jour, je youdrais signaler aux membres du Conseil que, a. la suite de la suggestion que j'ai emise a. la fin de la derniere seance, le systeme d'interpretation simultanee a ete mis a. notre disposition. S'il n'y a pas d'ohjee- tion, je propose que nous utilisions ce systeme qui nous fera certainement gagner beaucoup de temps. Y a-t-;l des objections a. cette proposition? M. CHAUVEL (France) : En raison des dreons- tances et de la hate que nous avons de voir nos travaux termines, je ne ferai pas d'objection a ce que nous ayons recours a. l'interpretation simul- tanee. Mais je tiens a. exprimer mon souhait que ceci ne constitue pas un precedent et que le carac- tere exceptionne1 de cette procedure soit hien marque. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Je re- mercie le representant de la France, et je prends note de la reserve qu'il a formulee. Comme Hn'y a pas d'objection nous pour- suivrons nos debats a. l'aide de l'interpretation simultanee, et je demande au Secretariat de pren- dre lesdispositions a. cet dIet. A ce moment, on passe al'interpretation simul- tanee. 2. Adoption de l'ordre du jour 3. AdtDission de nouveaux Membres .(suite) Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): NOUS avons deja. commence 1'examen du point 2. ~e l'ordre du jour. Nous sommes maintenant salS1S du projet de resolution· ci-apres presente par 1\1- delegation de l'URSS [S/1340/Rev.21: "Ayant examine 1es demandes d'admission a. l'Organisation des Nations Unies presentees p~r l'Albanie, la Republique populaire de· Mongolie, <CJe propose, comme motion de procedure, que, en examinant le projet de resolution S/1340, le Conseil de securite procede par division et qu'il mette aux voix separement les demandes d'admis- sion presentees par les pays dont le nom figure dans le projet de resolution, afin que chaque membre du Conseil de secnrite puisse montrer l'attitude de son pays a l'egard des diverses can- didatures." C'est cette motion qtle je devrai d'abord mettre aux voix. Certains membres du Conseil desirent- ils prendre la parole a ce sujet? That motion having been made, I shall have to put it to the vote first. I do not know whether any member of the Council wishes to say any- thing on that motion. Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Scviet Socialist I M. TSARAFKINE (Union des Republiques socia- Republics) (translated from Russian): I con- listes sovietiques) (traduit du russe) : Je pense sider that regardless of what proposals may ha . I que, queUes que soient les propositions qui lui been advanced here, it is the duty of the Security sont presentees, le, Conseil de securite doit tenir Council to take account of the fact that there compte du fait que le representant de l'URSS a is a draft resolution submitted by the USSR soumisun'projet de resolution et que, conforme- representative, and that, in accordance with :ule ment a l'artic1e 32 duO reglement int!~rieur, ce pro- 32 of the rules of procedure, that draft resolution jet dait etre mis aux voix dans son ensemble. must be voted upon as a whole. The wish of other representatives that each application should be voted separately has already been met. At the preceding meeting the applica- tions of seven countries were put to the vote separately.. In 1946, 1947 and 1948 the votes were also taken separately. Thus the .applica- tions of the countries listed in the draft resolu- tion of the Soviet Union hd.ve already been given separate consideration on several occasions. The USSR draft resolution has a different approach to this question. As representative of Les autres representants, qui desiraient que chaque demande d'admission fit l'objet d'un vote separe, ont deja re<;u satisfaction. A la demiere seance, le Conseil a vote separement sur les can- didatures de sept Etats. I1 avait deja vote separe- ment en 1946, en 1947 et en 1948; ainsi, les demandes des pays enumeres dans le projet de resolution de 1'Union sovietique ont maintes fois deja fait l'objet d'un examen separe. Le projet de resolution de l'URSS envisage - cette question d'une autre maniere. En conse- quence, en tant que representant de l'Union sovie- tique,je m'oppose a ce que ce projet fasse l'objet de votes separes. Aux termes'de l'artic1e 32 du r:eglement interieur, s'il y a opposition de la part de l'auteur du prolet de resolution, la division ne peut etre accordee, et le vote doit porter sur l'en,- . semble du projet. Je demande, par consequent, que le projet de reoslution soumis par le representant de l'URSS soit mis aux vdix dans son ensemble. th~ Soviet Union! I therefore object to having· thIS draft resolution voted on in parts. Under rule 32, a draft resolution cannot be voted on in parts if its mover objects, but must be voted on as a whole. I therefore ask that draft resolution proposed by the USSR representative should be put to the vote as a whole. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'anglais): Avant-hier" [443eme seance], fai demande des. pr.ecisions sur la fa<;ol1dont nous pourrions donner suite a la proposition du repre- sentant des Etats-Unis. Je voudrais savoir si celui-ci envisage de nous donner des. indications a ce sujet. Je prefererais ne pas poursuivre mon intervention avant d'avoir entendu sa reponse. Au cas ou i1 s'abstiendrait de le faire, je desire- rais ajouter quelque chose a ce queje viens de dire. Le general McNAUGHTON (Canada) (traduit de l'anglais) : Je dirai quelques mots pour appuyer la motion de procedure soumise par le repre- sentant des Etats~Unis. A mon sens, etdel'avis de ma delegation, it est indubitable que le Conseil . . . Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): At our meet- 109 two .days ago [443rd meeting], I asked for some g~lldanceas to how we should apply the sug~estion made by the representative of the Dntted.States, and if he would· consider shedding some 11ght ~m this point. I am willing not. to prpceed untIl I have heard from him. Failing thIS, however, I want to add something to what I have just said. . General McNAUGHTON (Canada): I should • hke to say ~ few words in support of th~ pro- cedural motion which has been introduced by I submit that the present situation is analogous, and thus, I shall vote in favour of the United States procedural motion. In supporting this motion, I must also say. that my delegation regards the Soviet Union draft resolution as con- stituting a serious violation of the "spirit and terms of the United Nations Charter, a.:; well as being contrary to the advisory opinion expressed by the International Court of Justice, an advisoty opinion which the General Assembly has recom- mended that the members of this Council should accept.l For this reason, my delegation will vote against the USSR draft resolution, if iL is put ·to the vote as a whole. . I also wish to add that Canada continues to :~ully support the applications of Jordan, ·Portu- gal, Ireland, Italy, Austria, Finland, Ceylon and Nepal. We feel that these eight States are fully qualified, under Article 4 of the Chart~, and we shall support their applications on all proper occasions. .,....., Mr. AUSTIN (United States of America): Briefly stated, the interpretation which the United States placed upon this situation is that two c;ourses were open to the United States delegation with regard to the draft resolution which is before us now. One was to have raised the question of con- stitutionality by a point of order submitted to the President Jor decision.. The United States did not choose. that course of action because it looked as though it would be a circuitous pro- ceeding which would take longer than the direct method that was chosen by the United States, because no doubt the ruling of the President would have been challenged and we would then have had to go through the motions of what we are doing now with the direct resolution. The other method available to the United States delegation was to follow the precedents which have been set and to offer a procedural motion J'~stime que nous nous trouvons en ce moment devant unp. situation analogue, et, pour cette rai- son, je voterai pour la motion de procedure des Etats-Unis. Je dois ajouter que, de I'avis de ma de1<§gation, le projet de resolution de l'Union sovietique constitue une violation grave de l'esprit et. de la lettre de la Charte des Nations Unies et va a. l'encontre de l'avis consultatif donne par la Cour internationale de Justice, a.vis que I'As- semblee generale a recommande aux membres du Conseil de securite d'accepterl . Ma delegation votera donc contre le projet de resolution de I'URSS S"il est mis aux voix dans son ensemble. Je tiens egalement a declar que le Canada continue a. appuyer sans reserve les demandes d'admission de la Jordanie, du Portugal, de l'IrIande, de l'Italie, de l'Autriche, de la Finlande, de Ceylan 'et du Nepal. EIIe estime que ces huit Etats remplissent toutes les conditions prevuesa ,11Atticle 4 de la Charte; nous appuierons dOlle leur demande c.b~q!J''' £ois que l'occasion se presentera. M. AUSTIN (Etats-Unis d'Ameriqlle) (traauit de l'ang1ais) : J'exposerai brievement la maniere dont la delegation des Etats-Unis comprend la ,situation actueUe. En ce qui concerne la resolution dont le Conseil est saisi, les Etats-Unis pouvaient .choisir entre deux partis. IIs auraient pu, tout d'abord, soulever la ques- tion de recevabilite enpresentant une motion d'ordre sur laquelle le President se serait pro- nonce. Les Etats-Unis n'ontpas procedp.'de cette fa<;on parce qu'iI leur semblait que c'eut ete une methode detottrnee qui aurait pris plus de temps que la methode directe. Ils ont pn§fere cette ~er­ niere, car la decision du President aurait certatne- ment etait contestee, et nous aurions ete obliges ensuite de proceder comme, nous le faisons maintenant. Le second parti consistait a. suivre les prece- dents deja. cre~s et a. presenter une motion d'ord~e que le ConseiI de securite a to"jours le drOit 1 VOU- les' Documents officiels de la troisieme sesfiol. de l'Assemblee generale, premie1'e partie, ResollltiOfIS, No 197 (IlI).- ' There is no reason Lor any confusion about rule 32, for it does not in any way apply to this draft resolution. One cannot apply a rule of pro- cedure of the Security Council to an anconstitu- tional resolution, There is absolutely nothing in the Charter which enables a member of the Secur- ity Council to submit a recommendation on a mass of applications. That is our in~erpretation. We once held a different view and we tried a different method, but we reached just the same result as we have now. This ought to be handled in the way 'our original resolution was handled in 1946; it should be withdrawn. But, in all probability, that will not happen. L'artic1e 32 ne s'applique pas cl uneresolution irrecevable, mais, s'il etait applicable, nous esti- merionsalors que l'article 32 accorde un privilege complementaire special a tous les membres du Canseil de securlte, celui d'obtenir que l'on merte separement aux voix les divers~s parties d'une resolution qu'il est possib1.e de diviser. Cet article donne a l'auteur d'une resolution repondant a cette condition le privilege _. et le privilege exc1u-. I This rule does not apply to an unconstitutional resolution; however, if it did apply, then our view of the matter is that rule 32 gives a special additional privilege; it gives any member of the Security Council the privilege of baving a resolu- tion capa.ble of being divided, voted upon in parts. It gives the initiator of such a resolution the privilege-an exclusive privilege-of saying "no" and of that "no" becoming effective and r-inding upon the whole Security Council. But can it be conceived that that was intended to deprive the Security Council of its general right of over-all authority over its procedure? We think not; that is our view of the matter, and this is my answer to the representative of Egypt. . Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt); I shall try to be brief. I know that our time is very limited, and I wish, first of all, to thank our colleague from the United States for the explanation which he has just given. However, I am still wondering about certain parts of his explanation. When he says that the draft resolution of the Soviet Union ~s uncons~i~utional, I really have some hesitation m subscnbmg to that, much as I object strenu- ously-and this is one thing I do not want to be forgotten by any member of the Security Council -t? t~e system of global and wholesale voting wh1ch 1S suggested by the draft resolution of the USSR. I think I was quite explicit on that point at our last meeting. However, I still encounter some difficulty, not from the point of view of the. s~nse, the things in themselves, as from the pract~c~l aspect. How are we prac.tically going to .dlVlde that draft resolution of the Soviet Umon? rai dit, au cours de la derniere seance, qu'it etait loisible a la delegation des Etats-Unis de presenter tout amendement qu'elle desirait au projet de r.esolution de l'URSS. Je ne vais pas repeter tout ce que j'ai rut alors:· ma declaration. figure au proces-verbaL NeanmOlns, et bien que jesois en principe partisan de voter separement . sur chaque demande d'admission - j'en suis • I sai? at our last meeting that it was open to the Ul:uted States delegation to presentan amend- ment l? any shape or form they desired. I am ?ot gomg to repeat all I said on that occasion it IS on record;. but, though I am in principle' in javour of votIng on. each application sepa~'ately- . am strongly in favour of that-at the same IIiirt want to see h:w we can practically over- 11 ne doit y avoir aucune confusion possible au sujet de l'article 32 du reglp.ment interieur qui ne s'applique nullement au projet de resolu- tion dont le Conseil est saisi. On ne peut appli- ~uer un article du reglement interieur du Conseil de securite cl une resolution irrecevable. 11 n'y a absolument aucune disposition de la Charte qui autorise un membre du Conseil de securite cl soumettre une recommandation portant sur plusieurs demandes d'admission. Telle est notre interpretation. Nous avons aun moment donne pense differernment et essaye une autre methode, et nous sommes arrives exactement au meme resultat que maintenant. Le projet de resolution de l'Union sovietique doit etre traite de la mane maniere que la resolution originale que nous avions presentee en 1946, c'est-a-dire qu'il devrait etre retire. n ne le sera tres probablement pas. sif - de s'y opposer, son opposition engageant et liant le Conseil de securite tout entier. Mais '"=st-il possible d'envisager que cet a.rticle ait ete con<;u en vue· d'empecher le Conseil de secl.1rite de faire usage de ses prerogatives generales touchant la direction d'ensemble de ses travaux? Jene le pense pas; telle est mon opinion et ma reponse au representant de l'Egypte. Mahmcud FAWZl Bey (Egypte) (tradttit de l'anglais) : Je m'efforcerai d'etre bref, car je sais que le temps du Conseil est limite. Je remercie tout d'abord le representant des Etats-Unis pour les explications qu'il vient de donner. Cependant, certains points ne me satisfont pas encore entiere- ment. Ainsi, lorsqu'il declare que le projet de resolution de I'Union sovietique est anticonstitu- tionnel, j'hesite vraiment a sousGrire a son opinion, bien que je proteste energiquement - et je tiens a ce qu'aucun membre du Conseil de securite ne l'oublie - contre le systeme du vote en bloc que prevoit la proposition de l'URSS. Je pense que je me suis explique tresclairement sur ce point au cours de la derniere seance.' Toutefois, je me heurte encore cl certaines difficultes, non pas en ce qui concerne le sens meme du projet de resolution, mais du point de vue pratique. Com- ment allons-nous diviser le projet de resolution de l'Union sovietique? "Having considerea t.1J.e appiication of Albania for admission to membership in the United Nations, "Recom:J1zenas to the General Assembly that Albania be admitted to membership in the United Nations." That same formula could be used with each successive country. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt) : I quite under- stand that, but I would rather call it an amend- ment. I do not want to indulge in too much hair-splitting, but I do want to feel that our pro- cedure is correct. If we follow the method sug- gested by the President, we would be repeating the first part of the USSR draft resolution each time. \iVould that repetition be considered an amendment? That is not a division; that is not an application of the second paragraph of rule 32 of our rules of procedure. Of course, I understand and quite agree with what the representative of the United States has said in connexion with our general rights. The Security Council is the master of its own pro- cedure. But, this general right must be applied, and I am sure the representative of the United States would quite agree with me, with as much logic as possible.
tiThe Security Council,
L'ordre dlll jour estadopte.
"Le Conseil de secttrite,
"The Secnrity C01tncil,
The President unattributed #155231
I may have misinterpreted the. intention of the representative of the United States. I do not know his views on the suggestion made by the representative of Egypt to the effect that the consequence of what has been·proposed . would constitute a motion to amend the USSR draft resolution. Mr. AUSTIN (United States of America): If that is meant as a question, I should like to answer by simply saying that there is a great difference between the status of a motion to amend and the status of this motion presented by the United States. The difference is in its effect. For example, a motion to amend could in all probability be vetoed, but this isa procedural motion and it cannot Le vetoed. In making this motion, the United States was very particular to distinguish between an amendment and a motion of procedure. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): The motive is quite understandable,. but. the :;procedure, at least for me, still engenders some difficulty. "Ayant examine la demande d'admission a1'01'- ganisation des Nations Unies presentee par l'AIbanie, "Recommande a l'AssembIee generale d'ad. mettre l'Albanie a l'Organisation des Nations Unies." On pourrait employer la meme formule pour chaque pays mentionne dans le projet de reso- ltltion. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (tradl£it de l'ang1ais) : Je comprends parfaitement cette solu- tion, mais, a mon avis, c'est plutot un amende- ment. Je ne desire pas engager une controverse subtile, mais je voudrais avoir la certitude que la procedure que nous suivons est reguliere. Si nous adoptons la procedure que suggere le Pre- sident, nous repetons chaque fois la premiere partie du projet de resolution de l'URSS. CeUe repetition sera-t-elle consideree comme un amen- dement? il ne s'agira pas de division et nous n'appliquerons pas le second paragraphe de l'ar- tide 32 de notre reglement interieur. Je comprends, certes, ce que le representant des Etats-Unis a dit au sujet des prerogatives generales du Conseil de securite, et je suis d'accord avec lui. Le Conseil de securite est maitre de son reglement interieur. Mais, et je suis certain que le representant des Etats-Unis partage man avis, ce droit general doit etre applique d'une maniere aussi logique que possible. Le PRESIDENT (trachdt de l'anglais) : J'ai peut- etre mal compris ce que le representant des Etats- Unis a voulu dire. Je ne sais pas ce qu'il pense de l'opinion du representant de l'Egypte, qui a laisse entendre que la proposition des Etats-Unis constituerait une motion tendant a amender la resolution de l'URSS. M. AUSTIN (Etats-Unis d'Amerique) (traduit de l'anglais): Si c'est une question qui m'est posee, je repondrai sim:plement qu'il y a une grande difference entre une proposition d'amende- ment et la motion soumise par les Etats-Unis. La difference reside dans leurs consequences. Ainsi, il est probable qu'une proposition d'amen- dement aurait de grandes chances de se heurter a. un veto, alors que la regIe de l'unanimite ne joue pas pour une motion de procedure telle que la notre. Les Etats-Unisse sont beaucoup preoccU- pes, en presentant cette motion, d'etablir une dis- tinction entre une proposition d'amendement et une motion de procedure. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte)· (traduit de l'ang1ais) :. Le motifpeut parfaitement se com- prendre, mais, a mon avis, cette procedure sou~ levera quelques difficultes. Le'representant du Canada a declare au Conseil qu'il appuiera la proposition des Etats-Unis et que, selon lui, 1'article 32 du reglement interieur est peut-etre obligatoire pour tel ou tel membre individuel du Conseil, mais non pour le Conseil dans son ensemble. C'est la une interpretation incorrecte, une interpretation inventee de toutes pieces, une interpretation illegale. Je prends l'en- tiere responsabilite de cette declaration, car le reglement inh~rieur en question est le reglement interieur du Conseil de securite, et non celui du general McNaughton vU de tel autre represen- tant; c'est, dis-je, le reglement interieur du Con- seil de securite, et ce demier, en tant qu'organc des Nations Unies, doit obligatoirement s'y con- former. Nier cela reviendrait a supprimer le reglement interieur; le Conseil n'aurait pas de reglement interieur et serait livre a l'arbitraire de ses membres, lesquels pourraient creel' une majo- rite et voter comme bon leur semblerait sur des textes de leur choix. Cela nous conduirait· a. fander tout notre travail sur 1'arbitraire des diffe- rents representants qui siegent au Conseil de securite. Celui-ci ne serait plus un organe des Nations Unies, mais quelque chose d'incompre- hensible. Je proteste contre une telle interpretation du reglement interieur du Conseil de securite; ou bien nous avons un reglement interieur, ou bien nous n'en avons pas. C'est la premi~re fois que je vois aborder cette question d'une telle maniere. The representative of Canada has told us that he !:~pports the United States proposal, and that while rule 32 may be binding for an individual member of the Council, he does not consider that the Council as a body is bound by it. This in- terpretation is false, far-fetched and illegal. I say this with full confidence, as this rule of pro- cedure is effective for the Security Council as a whole and not merely for General McNaughton or any other individual member of the Council; it is a rule of procedure of the Security CouncD and the Council, as an organ of L~e United Nations is bound to observe it. If you deny this then we have no rules of procedure, then the'Council is without rules of procedure, then the Council is at the mercy of its individual members who may form a majority and vote what they please and how they please. This would lead to a situation where our entire work would depend on the arbitrary will of individual mem- bers of the Security Council. It would no longer be a Council or an organ of the United Nations, but something quite incomprehensible. I protest against such an interpretation of the Security Council's rules of procedure; either we have rules of procedure, or we have not. This is the first time that I have encountered such an approach to this question. References have been made to what happened in 1946. Since this question has been raised, I should like to remind the Council of what hap- pened in 1946. At the meeting of the Ser.:urity Council of 28 August 1946 [54th meeting], Mr. Johnson, the United States representative, said: "My Government proposes that the Council take broad and far-sighted action to extend the membership of the United Nations now as far as is consistent with the provisions of Article 4 of the Charter. It accordingly proposes that the Council now recommend to the General Assembly the admission of all the present applicants. Puisqu'on invoque id les evenements de 1946, je rappellerai precisement au Conseil ce qui s'est . passe au cours de cette annee. A la seance que. le Conseil de securite a tenue le 28 aout 1946 [54eme seance], M. Johnson, representant des Etats-Unis, a declare: "Man Gouvernement propose que le Conseil de securite decide, avec une grande largeur de vues et une claire vision de la situation, d'ac- croitre le nombre des Nations Unies dans toute la mesure compatible avec les dispositions de l'Article 4 de la Charte. Le Gouvernement des Etats-Unis propose dont que le Conseil de secu" . rite recommande maintenant a l'Assemblee gene- rale d'admettre tOllS les Etats qui, a l'heure actuelle, ont presente des demandesd'admission. "Nous ne dissimulons pas les doutes que nons avons en ce qui coucerne certains de ces Etats, notamment 1'Albanie et la Republique populaire . de Mongolie. Nous avons clairement exprime ces doutes et ces inquietudes au conI'S des debats du Comite d'admission de nouveaux Membres. Si, parmi les pays qui ont presente une demande d'admission, il s'en trouvait un qui nt':. fUt pas un veritable Etat, au sens international du terme, ou qui n'eut pas les pouvoirs gouvernementaux ou les moyens materiels necessaires pour s'acquit- ter des obligations de la Charte, r.ous ne presen- terions pas cette proposition." . '~We do not disguise the fact that we have mis- g1Vlngs about some of the applicants, especially Albania and the Mongolian People's Republic. Our. doubts and questions with regard to the apphcants were fully and clearly stated during th~ proceedings of the Committee on the Ad- mISSIon of New Members. If there were among the present applicants an entity that was not a State, in the international sense, or one that lacked the governmental powers or material means of carrying out the obligations of the Charter, we would not make this proposal." The United States representative further said: Plus loin, le representant des Etats-Unis dec1a~ rait: "L'idee essentielle de notreproposition est que" le Conseil~ dans un esprit d'equite envers taus "The SeCltrity Cozencil, "Having received applications for membership submitted to the Organization by Albania, the Mongolian People's Republic, Afghanista..'1, Transjordan, Ireland, Portugal, Iceland and Sweden; "Having pltrsltant to its rules of procedure and to its resolution of 17 May 1946 as amended, referred the above-mentioned applications to its Committee on the Admission of New Members for examination and report; and "Having received and considered the report of the Committee on the Admission of New Mem- bers which indicates that individual consideration has been given to each application; -"Recommande a l'Assemblee generale d'admet- tre comme Membres des Nations Unies les Etats suivants qui en ont fait la demande: Afghanistan, Albanie, Islande, Irlande, Republique populaire de :iy.rongolie, Portugal, Suede, Transjordanie." En d'autres termes, la proposition des Etats- Unis en date du 28 aofrt 1946 tendait exactement aux memes fins que le projet de resolution de l'Union soviHi':l.ue dont le Conseil est actuelle- ment saisi, c'eilt-a-dire a l'admission simultanee des huit Etats qui avaient fait acte de candidature. A la meme seance du Conseil est intervenu M. Trygve Lie, Secretaire general de l'Organi- sation des Nations Unies, qui s'est exprime ace sujet de la maniere suivante: ". .. En ma qualite de Secretaire general des Nations Unies, je desire ... appuyer la proposi- tion tendant a admettre tous les Etats dont la demande est soumise aujourd'hui." Cela signifie qu'il a soutenu la proposition des Etats-Unis sans la qualifier d' "anticonstituuon- neIle", comme on cherche a le faire aujourd'hui en ce qui concerne le projet de resolution presente par l'Union sovietique. I1 a appuye la proposition en question et s'est prononce en fav~ur de l'ad- mission de tous les Etats interesses. Mes citations sont tir~es du proces-verbal officiel de cette seance. That day, Mr. VeIloso, the Brazilian repre- A ce sujet, M. Velloso, representant du Bresil, sentative, speaking on the same question, said: a pris la parole it cette meme date pour declarer: "The representative of the United States has "Le representant. des Etats-Unis vient de pro- just proposed that the Security Council should poser que le Conseil de securite recommande a recommend that the General Assembly accept all l'Assemblee generale l'acceptation de toutes les the applications submitted to it. The Secretary- candidature~qui lui ont etepresentees. Le Secre- General has expressed the same opinion. That is taire general vienfde s'exprimer dans le meme also my Government's point of view, as I have sens. C'est le point de vue de mon Gouvemement, already stated in public and as has been stated deja exprime publiquement par moi-meme et sou- by the Brazilian representative on the Committee tenu par le representant du. Bresil aupres du whose report we are discussing." Comite dont nous discutons le, rapport." "Recommends to the General Assembly that it admit to membership the following applicants: Afghanistan, Albania, Iceland, Ireland, the Mon- golian People's Republic, Portugal, Sweden, Transjordan." In other words, the United States,.proposal of 28 August 1946 made the same provisio"n as the draft resolution of the Soviet Union which is now. berore 1.1s, in that it proposed the simul- taneous admission of the eight applicant States. At the same meeting Mr. Trygve Lie, the' Secretary-General of the United Nations, made the following statement in that regard: ". . . in my capacity as Secretary-General of the United Nations, I wish to support the ad- mission to membership of all the States which are applying today". That is to say, he supported the United States proposal and did not call it "unconstitutional" as some have tried to describe the draft resolution of the Soviet-Union tday. He supported this resolution and spoke in favour of the admission of all the States concerned. I quote from the official record of that meeting. Thus the Brazilian representative also spoke in Le represeJ;ltant du Bresil s'est donc egalement favour of the adoption of the United States draft prononce en faveur de ce projet de resolution des resolution. Etats-Unis. Then, the Me;x:ican representative, Mr.. Padilla M. Padilla Nervo, representant du Mexique, Nervo, who was also a member of the Security qui, Io; "uss;, s;lgeait .~seil ~:.'~~ri"d "Ayant re~u les demandes 'd'admission sou- mises a I'Organisation par l'Albanie, la Repnbli- que populaire de Mongolie, l'Afghanistan, la Transjordanie, l'Irlande, le Portugal, l'Islande et la Suede; "Ayant, conformement a son reglement inh~­ deur et a sa resolution du 17 mai 1946 telle qu'elle a ete amendee, SOumlS lesdites demandes au Comite d'admission de nouveaux Membres aux fins d'examen et de rapport; "Ayant re~1l. et examine le rapport du Comite, qui indique que chaque demande. d'admission a ete consideree et etudiee separement, Finally, Mahmoud Fawzi Bey, the same Egyp- tian representative, said both at the last [433rd] meeting of the Council and today that he con- sidered the USSR draft resolution illogical, and that to vote on it seemed to him illogical, un- reasonable and so on. Those were his own words. He repeated today that he objected to the adop- tion of a resolution which proposed the simul- taneous admission of all applicants for member- ship in the United Nations. And yet this is what that same representative, who was a mem- ber of the Security Council in 1946, said in con- nexion with the above-mentioned United States draft resolution, which recommended the admis- sion of eight members. (1 quote from the record) : "I am therefore glad to welcome the statement made by the representative of the United States and to support, in the name of my Government, the proposal that the Council recommends to the General Assembly the admission of all the present eight applicants for membership." "Je suis done heureux d'appuyer, au nom de mon Gouvernement, la proposition du represen- tant des Etats-Unis tendant a ce que le Conseil de securite recommande a l'Assemblee generale d'admettre les huit pays qui ont demande a deve- nir Membres de l'Organisation." Telle etait 1'attitude adoptee par la majorite des membres du Conseil de securite en 1946. Que s'est-il passe, qu'y a-t-il eu de change depuis? Pourquoi done le projet de resolution de 1'URSS est-il maintenant considere comme con- traire au reglement? Pourquoi nous dit-on main- tenant qu'il ne saurait etre adopte, alors que de nombreux membres du Conseil de securite se sont prononces en 1946 pour le projet de resolu- tion des Etats-Unis et ont meme ete heureux de voter en sa faveur pour la seule raison qu'il ema- nait du representant des Etats-Unis? Aujour- d'hui, ces memes membres donnent, au contraire, 1'impression qu'ils seraient tres malheureux s'ils devaient voter en faveur d'une proposition ana- logue presentee par 1'URSS. OU est la logiqtie, ou est la cohesion dans une pareille attitude, qui n'est d'ailleurs pas tompa- tible avec l'esprit de la Charte des NationsUnies? J'ajoute qu'a la seance stiivante, c'est-a-dire a- la 55eme seance du Conseil de securite, le repre- sentantde la Chine a pris la parole au sujet du projet de resolution des Etats-Unis et a declare ce qui suit: "I have listened with interest to the earnest "I'ai ecoute avec interet les appels chaleureux and eloquent appeals made. by several of my et eloquents formules par plusieurs de mes col- That was the attitude of the majority of the Security Council in 1946. What has happened? What has changed since then? Why is the USSR draft resolution now regarded as unconstitutional? Why the allega- tion that the USSR draft resolution cannot be voted upon now when many members of the S~curity Council were only too happy .to vote for the United States draft resolution in 1946 just because it hacl been submitted by the United States representative? Now they feign unhappi- ness if they have to vote for an identical USSR draft resolution. The!e is no logic and no consistency in such all attItude, nor is it consistent with the spirit of the ,United Nations Charter. Spe.aking at the, next, the 55th, meeting of the ~ecunty Council, the Chinese representative said m reference to the United States proposal: colle.a~es and our Secretary-General for the legues et par notre Secretaire general en faTTeur admIsSIOn to membership of all the eight appli- de 1'admission en bloc auxNations Unies. des ca~ts and I wish to add our support to the reso- huit Etats avant formule une demande d'admis- IUh?n proposed by the representative of the sion, et je d~sire apporter notre appui a la reso- IIIb States..." ~~~~.~."....~"..,___._,~"~~~~};~~~~~~e .•~~r le._:epre~entant d~~.~t.~t~~:, Enfin, Mahmoud Fawzi Bey, representant de l'Egypte, a declare, a la derniere [443enze] seance et aujourd'hui meme, qu'a ses yeux le projet de resolution de l'URSS manquait de logique et .qu'il serait paradoxal, absurde, etc. de faire voter le Conseil sur ee projet de resolution. Ce sont la ses propres paroles. Aujourd'hui encore, le representant de l'Egypte a repete qu'il s'opposait a l'adoption d'une resolution tendant a l'admission simultanee de tous les Etats candidats. Eh bien, void ce que ce meme representant. qui siegeait au Conseil de securite en 1946, a declare a l'epo- que au sujet du projet de resolution des Etats- Unis qui recommandait l'admission des huit Etats - je cite le proces-verbal: "I only want to say that if the American reso- lution is put to a vote I shall vote in favour of it, not that I do not see the inconveniences thereof, but because I think that the advantages of voting in favour of the American draft resolution out- weigh the disadvantages." Mr. Johnson, the United States representative, however, withdrew that draft resolution [SSth meeting] because of the opposition displayed by several delegations, in particular the United Kingdom and Australian representatives who had attacked it. The United Kingdom was opposed to the admission of Albania to the United Nations following the notorious cooked-up inci- dent in the Straits of Corfu. That was the position in 1946. What happened in 1947 was naturally illegal-yet attempts are now being- made to use it as a justification "for , the violation of rule 32 of the rules of procedure and so to have a vote in parts. At the last meeting, the United States repre- sentative referred to the attitude of the'represen- tative of the Soviet Union, Mr. Gromyko, on that question. and quoted him. Actually this is what the USSR representative had said in connexion with the Polish draft resolution [S/ S6S1 ; I quote from the record of the Security Council's meeting of 1 October 1947 [206th meeting] : "Regardless of when the question of admitting these countries is or may be brought up, the USSR delegation both in the SecuritY Council and in the General'Assembly-should this ques- tion come up for discussion in the General Assembly following a decision to that effect in the Security Council-will always support a pro- posal for the simultaneous admission to the United Nations of these countries. The question of ad- mitting anyone country belonging to this group cannot be decided, in a positive sense. This is a single question and a decision must be taken which will apply simultaneously to all the appli- cations." That is the true position of the Soviet Union on that question. Now I must warn the Security Council that the proposal submitted by. the United States representative is not, in fact, of a procedural character. It is fraught with political implications and it is rather doubtful whether it can be regarded . as a procedural proposal. If we adopted that proposal we would, in fact, be faced with thirteen draft resolutions instead of one. That is an entirely different approach, and it has already been used in 1946, 1947 and 1948. The delegation of the Soviet Union is suggest- ing anew approach to the problem, similar to that followed by the United States in 1946.' In- ,deed, experience has shown that an individual approach' to that question' can lead to nothing positive and can only result in discrimination Toutefois, M. Johnson, representant des Etats- Unis, retira [SSeme seance] son projet de reso- lution, parce qu'il avait rencontre I'opposition et la critique d'un certain nombre de delegations, notamment celles du Royaume-Uni et de l'Aus- tralie. Le Royaume-Uni ne voulait pas que l'Alba- nie soit admise au sein de l'Organisation, a la suite de l'incident bien conou du detroit de Cor- fou, incident qui avait ete monte de toutes pieces. Voila le tableau exact de ce qui a eu iieu en 1946. Quant a ce qui s'est passe en 1947, et sur quoi on essaie d'etayer une argumentation tendant a justifier une violation de l'article 32 du regle- ment interieur afin d'obtenir un vote par division, tout cela a ete parfaitement irregulier. Au cours de la derniere seance, le representant des Etats-Unis a invoque l'attitude adoptee acet egard par M. Gromyko, representant de l'Union sovietique. Je tiens a preciser les termes de la declaration du representant de I'URSS au sujet du projet de resolution de la Pologne [Sj565]; je cite le proces-verbal de la seance du Conseil de securite du 1er octobre 1947 [206eme seance]: "Que ce soit au Conseil de securite ou a- l'Assemblee generale, au cas OU l'Assemblee serait appelee a examiner cette question a la suite d'une decision du Conseil a cet effet, la delegation de I'URSS appuiera a n'importe quel moment la proposition d'admettre simultanement ces pays a I'Organisation. Si 1'0n examine separe- ment la question d'admettre l'un quelconque des pays de ce groupe, il n'est pas possible de la tran- cher dans un sens favorable. I1 s'agit d'un pro- bleme indivisible, et on ne peut le resoudre qu'en tenant compte simultanement de toutes les demandes d'admission." TeIle est la veritable attitude de l'Union SQvie- tique' sur ce, point. Et main-tenant, je tiens a faire remarquer au Conseil de securite que la motion du represeht~nt des Etats-Unis n'est pas, en fait, une motlOn de procedure. Elle entraine certaines conseq~en­ ces politiques, et il est aSsez douteux qu'on PUISS: la considerer comme relevant de la procedure. SI 1'0n examine la proposition des Etats-Unis, on voitqu'en realite e1le contient treize projetsde resolution au lieu d'un seu!. Elle procede done d'une autremethode, qui a deja ete suivie all cours des annees 1946, 1947 et 1948. La'deleg;ation de l'Union sovietique propose ~'aborder la question d'une fac;on nouveIle, c'e~t; a-dire precisement d'une fac;on dont die a ete aborrlee en 1946 par les Etats-Unis; en ciIet, la pratique a montre quel'examen individuel des ,demandesd'admission ne donne aucun resulta .d'ac~epter cette maniere de voir. Certes, le representant des Etats-Unis peut soumettre treize projets de resolution visant, cha- cun separement, 1'un des· Etats dont les noms sont enumeres dans le projet de resolution de l'Union s6vietique, mais ce n'est pas lale projet de resolution de l'URSS. La delegation de l'Union sovietique presente un seul projet de resolution et prie le Conseil de vouloir bien se prononcer sur ce sujet par un vote, que ce soit pour l'adopter ou pour le rejeter. Le Conseil de securite est tenu de mettre ce projet de resolution aux voix. Il doit se conformer a 1'a-rocle 32 du reglement interieur, car c'est la un article valable pour tous les membres du Conseil de securite, et non seule- ment pour certains d'entre eux. Si 1'on enfreint cet article, le Conseil de securite n'aura plus de reglement interieur et sera livre -a l'arbitraire. Un tel- procede est inadmissible, et je m'y oppose d'une fa<;on categorique. Je propose donc de mettre aux voixle projet de resolution de l'URSS. La question est par:" faitement claire, et l'on ne peut la resoudre par des artifices de procedure auxquels le represen- tant de l'Unionsovietique ne pourra jamais don- ner son accord. Je defends en ce moment le reglement interieur du Conseil de securite, car la violation de· ce reglement rendrait le· Conseil sans defense. Celui- ci deviendrait, du point de vue de. sa stru9ture, un organe amorphe, prive de l'armature que le rcglement interieur confere a sa procedure. Cette armature disparaitrait completementsi 1'on violait l'artide 32. Le representant du Canada estime que le Con.;. The United States representative may submit thirteen separate resolutions, one for each appli- cation of the States listed in the draft resolution of the Soviet Union, but that will not be the USSR proposal. The Soviet Union is submitting one draft resolution and members of the Council should be goo·d enough to vote on it, irrespective of whether they accept it or not. The Security Council is under the obligation to vote on that draft resolution. It must do so under rule 32 for that is one of the Security Council's rules of pro- cedure, and not the rule of its individual mem- bers. If that rule is broken, there will no longer be any rules of procedure of the Security Council. but only arbitrary wiII. That is inadmissible and I protest categorically against it. I propose, therefore, that we now proceed to a. vote on the USSR draft resolution. The ques- tion is crystal clear and this matter cannot be solved.. by any proce?ural devices. The repre- sentatIve of the SOVIet Union cannot agree to that. I am now speaking in defence of the rules of procedure because violation of them would leave the Security Council utterly defenceless and, from ~n organizational point of view, would change it Into an amorphous organ without any procedural framework. That procedural framework would be completely destroyed if rule 32 of the rules of procedure were violated. Th~ Canadian representative maintains that the Secunty Council may decide what rules to apply ~eil de securite a le droit de decider queIs sont ~nd .what rules not to apply. But, in that case, ~e s.ame may be done with the powers given the resident or any other. The Security Council l1lay state that, although these rules are part of ~e :ules of.. procedure, they apply only to the resIdent as such but not to the Council as an iligan. We would thus reach absurdity and nullify e rUles of procedure. The Security Council j articles qu'il desire appliquer etceux qu'il ne veut pas prendre en consideration. Mais, dans ce cas, on pourraiten dire autant des articles delimitant les droits du Presidentou de tous autres articles. Les membres du Conseil de secu- rite pourraient declarer que, bien qu'une question soit prevue dans le reglement interieur,e1le est uniquement du ressort dl1 President, et non -du Conseil proprement dit. On aboutirait ainsi a. une situation absurde,· a la destruction complete du reglement interieur. Le Conseil de securitene saurait se laisser entrainer dans cette voie, qui l'amenerait a saper les fondements memesde 1'0rg:,misation des Nations Unies. Cette violation de l'artic1e 32 adonc une signification qui depasse l'importance de ce cas d'espece. ~annot allow itself to be dragged on to that road for suc~ a course would undermine the very TW~da~IOn~ of the United Nations as a whole. . VIOlatIOn of rule 32 by far transcends this partIcular casr~. "... a Member of the United Nations which is .called upon, in virtue of Article 4 of the Charter, td pronounce itself by its vote, either in the Security Council or in the General Assembly, on the admission of a State to membership in the United Nations, is not juridically entitled to make its consent to the admission dependent on conditions not ex- pressly provided by paragraph 1- of the said Article"; and that, "... in particular, a Member of the Organization cannot, 'while it recognizes the conditions set forth in that provision to be fulfilled by the State concerned, subject its affirmative vote to the additional condition th?t other States be admitted to membership in the United Nations together with that State," That is clear enough, and it certainly has changed the situation. .. The representative of the USSR has bt=en quite frank. He makes no secret of the fact that his draft resolution is designed to effect wha'"he calls a compromise-that is to say, to make the admission of certain candidates dependent upon the admission of others, a thing which is expressly barred by the opinion of the Internatiqnal Court of Justice. Consequently, I would think that, in point of fact, his draft resolution was uncon- stitutional, and I am not quite sure that it should not have been barred from presentation. However, it is on the table now. The other point which I wish to make relates to rule 32 of our rules of procedure, the second paragraph of which says: "Parts of a' motion or of·a draft resolution shall be voted on separately at the request of any representative, unless the original mover objects." That is quite plain, too. These rules of pro- cedurehave been'drawn up for the 'convenience of.-me Council. The Council does not have to take a decision in every case that may present itself. In the second paragraph of rule 32, there is a provision that if the original mover 'does not object then, automatically, at the request of any member, a resolution is voted upon in parts. That·is quite automatic and saves a wrangle each time. If, however, it is claimed that that debars the Security Council from nevertheless taking a 'vote on its procedure if it wishes to do so, I am unable to follow that argument. As the repre- sentative of Canada has already stated-and as I have often heard stated without cpallenge at this table-the Security Council is master of its own procedure and can, of course, by a pro- cedural vote, follow any procedure'which it elects. .", See Admission of a State to the United Nations (Charter, Article 4), Advisory opinion: Inlternational Court of JustiCe, Reports, 1948, page 65. <t••• Un Membre de 1'0rganisation des Nations Unies, appele, en vertu de l'Article 4 de la Charte, a. se prononcer par son vote, soit au Conseil de securite, soit a l'Assemblee generale, sur 1'admis- sion d'un Etat comme Membre des Nations Unies, n'est pas juridiquement fonde a faire dependre son consentement a cette admission de conditions non expressement prevues au para- graphe 1 dudit A'rti;c1e; qu'e11l p,articulier,un Membre de 1'Organisation ne peut, alors qu'il reconnait que les conditions prevues par ce texte sont remplies par 1'Etat en question, subordonner sont vote affirmatif a la condition que, en meme temps que l'Etat dont il s'agit, d'autres Etats soient egalement admis comme Membres des Nations Unies." Cet avis est net, et il modifie certainement la situation. Le representant de l'URSS a ete tout a fait franc. I1 n'a point cache que son projet de reso- lution est destine a aboutir a ce qu'il appelle un compromis, c'est-a-dire a faire dependre l'admis- sion de certains candidats de l'admission d'autres candidats, ce qui est expressement exc1u par l'avis consultatif de la Cour internationale de Justice. J'estime donc qu'en fait ce projet de resolution est irrecevable; je me demande meme si l'on n'aurait pas da empecher qu'il soit soumis. Or, le Conseil en est actuellement saisi. Je voudrais parler maintenant de l'artic1e 32 du reglement interieur, dont le second paragraphe est le suivant: "La division est de droit si elle est demandee, a moins que 1'auteur de la proposition ou du projet de resolution ne s'y oppose." Cette disposition est c1aire. Le reglement.a ete etabli pour faciliter les travaux du Consel, afin que celui-ci ne soit pas oblige de prendre une decision dans chaque cas particulier. Aux termes du second paragraphe de 1'article 32, la division est de droit, si eUe est demandee pal:' un memhre, a moins que l'auteur de la proposition ne s'y oppose. Cette d!sposition s'applique auto- matiquement et permet d'eviter un debat dans chaque cas particulier~ Mais, si l'on pretend que cet article interdit au Conseil de mettre aUX VOIX, s'il le desire, une question relative a la conduite de ses travaux, je n'accepte pas ce point de vue. Le representant du Canada a declare - et ce~e opinion a ete enoncee SOuvent devant le Consed, sans soulever d'opposition - que le Conseil de securite est maitre de son reglement interieuret peut, par -consequent, decider par un vote de .la • Voir: Admission d'1tn Etat comme Meii~bre des Nations· Unies (Article 4 de la Chaflte), avis .consul- tatif: Cour internationale de Jus±icc, Recuell 1948, page 65. ' I feel that my duty is quite plain, namely, to Pllt the motion of the representative of the United States h) a vote. Before so doing I call upon the representative of the Ukrainian SSR on a point of order. Mr. MAN""UILSKY (Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic) (translated from Russian): I would like to speak not on a point of order but on the President's statement that something new had happened since the meetings of 1946, namely, the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice. But Mr. Vyshinsky, the present Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR, has already proved most conclusively in the General AssemblyS that the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice mentioned by the President did not in fact exist. In the first place a substantial minority of the Court opposed the interpretation now given by Sir Alexander Cadogan, the present President of the Security Council; secondly even those mem- bers who voted with the majority made a number of reservations. . That has been brilliantly demonstrated in the speech of Mr. Vyshinsky, and I think it would be a waste of time to revert to that issue. The President's reference is absolutely un- founded; it only reveals his embarrassment when faced with the fact that he must observe the rules of procedure worked out by'the Security Council. He has no arguments and" he is break- ing those rules. I would go even further: can one regard as normal the situation which arose at the last meet- ing when, as already pointed out by the delega- tion of the Ukrainian SSR, the President thrice violated the rules of procedure and the established voting procedure in the United Nations? When the question arose whether the President's ·actions had been incorrect, he was able to obtain only five vptes out of eleven (I am not counting the President's vote, for he abstained). I do not think that such a procedure is binding on eleven mem- bers of the Security Council. < cueilli que cinq voix (sans compter la sienne, puisqu'il s'est abstenu). Je ne pense pGl.s que ce resultat puisse faireautorite pour les onze melll- bres du Conseil. Telle est la declaration que j'estimais devoir faire. Je proteste, comme 1'a deja fait le repre- sentant de 1'Union sovietique, cpntre les infrac- tions commises par le President et 'par le repre- sentant des Etats-Unis al'egard du reglement interieur,Jequel presente un caraetere Obligatoire, tant pour les membres du Conseil de securite pris individuellement que pour le Conseildans son ensemble. Le .PRESIDENT (traduitde l'anglais) : Le repre- sentant de la RSS d'Ukraine· veut-il proposer un vote de censure contre le President? . . Pas de reponse... Cela ne semblepasetre Jecas. That is the statement I felt it my duty to ma~e. Like the representative of the Soviet UnIOn, I protest against the ~crude violation by the United States rf'presentative and by the Presi- dent. of rules of procedure which 'lre binding Upon all members of the Security Council and on the Security Council as a whole.
"Le Conscil de secltrite,
"Le Conseil de secttrite,
The President unattributed #155234
Would the representative of the Ukrainian SSR like to move a vote of censure on the President? ... Silence ... apparently not. Mon devoir est, me semble-t-il, !res clair: je dois mettre aux voix la proposition du representant des Etats-Unis. Auparavant je donne la parole au representant de la RSS d'Ukraine sur une question d'ordre. M. MANUILSKY (Republique socialiste sovietique d'Ukraine) (traduit d·u russe): Je desire intervenir, non pas apropos d'une question d'ordre, mais au sujet de Iadec1aration duPresident d'apres laquelle un fait nouveau se serait produit depuis 1946, a savoir que la Cour internationale de' Jusuce a emis un avis consultatif. Or, en realite, comme M. Vychinsky, actuelle- ·ment Ministre des. affaires etrangeres de l'Union sovietique, l'a demontre d'une fa<;on eclatante dans un discours prononce devant l'Assemblee generales, cet avis consultatif de la Cour internationale de Justice, auque1 se THere le President, n'a pas ete formule. En premier lieu, une minorite importante de la Cour s'est prononcee contre 1'interpretation que donne de cet. avis Sir Alexander Cadogan, actuellement President du Conseilde secUlite. En second lieu, meme les 11lelIlbres de 1a majorite ont fait toute une serie de reserves. M. Vychinsky 1'a c1airement demontre dans son discours, et j'estime inutile de revenir surcette question. Lare£erence qu'a faite le President est denuee de tout fondement; elle prouve simplement l'embarras que lui cause l'obligation de respecter le reglement interieur elabore par le Conseil de securite. N'ayant aucun argument a formuler, il viole ce reglement. Je dirai plus: peut-on considerer comme normale la situation qui s'est produite au cours de la seance precedente, lorsque, comme l'a signale le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine, le President a enfreint, a trois reprises, tant le reglement inte~ rieur que 1'usage etabli en ce qui concerne la procedure de vote a l'Organisation des Nations Unies. Lors du vote visant a determiner s'il a procede de fa<;on reguliere, le President n'a re.,. 3 V<lil' les Documents officiels de la troisieme session de l'Assemblee gbdrale, ·pl'~iel'e partie, 176eme seance pleniel'e. " A few minutes ago, the representative of the USSR has referred to the record with regard to a motion made in 1946 by the representative of the United States, Mr. Johnson, and made mention of the position of my delegation on that occasion. The representative of the USSR proceeded to quote what the representative of China had said at that time. He has an advantage over me as he has the record before him and I do not. However, I to.ok part in that debate, and my recollection of it is as follows: in fact, while the .representative of the Soviet Union was speaking I noticed the smile on the face of j:he President, for I believe the President was afso present at .that meeting. The representative of the USSR did not quote the whole thing. I recall that when I supported Mr. J ohn~on with qualifications, I began my statement by mentioning a Chinese custom:· When a new store is' opened, the first customer who comes into the shop usually obtains things free. At that time the United Nations was considering the first applications for membership, and we wai:ted to make exceptions.. I also made the qualification that I' supported the motion with the understanding that it would be approved unanimously. I do.not recall my exact words, but they were to that effect. Later" the motion was not accepted, and MT'. Johnson withdrew his draft resolution. The Chinese delegation did not support the proposal of a global or group admission as a matter of policy or principle, but as a matter of exception. I may also add that for a complete record the representative of' the USSR should go on to state what the attitude Qf his delegation was at that time. The representative.of the USSR did not state that. .I make this statement in order to keep the record straight. . Mahimoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): Perhaps I am tooprocedurally minded today, but I should like to point out, at least for the record, that I do not consider the intervention of the .representative of the Ukrainian SSR to. be a point of order. He spoke about something quite different, and I cannot consider what he has said to be a point of order. Speaking today on the position of the delegation of the Soviet Union, asI did two days ago [443rd meeting], I continue to support their .right to have their draft resolution voted upon either as it is, or divided, or properly amended; I wish to underline the word "properly". That is the extent to which I am prepared to go along with the position of the delegation ofthe USSR. The representative of the Soviet Union has presented today a medley of arguments, some of which might somehow seem to be plausible, but I do not see that they are in any sense convincing. Le representant de l'URSS vient de se re£erer aux proces-verbaux des debats au sujet d'une motion presentee en 1946 par M. Johnson, representant des Etats-Unis, et defah~e allusion ala position prise en l'occurrence par ma delegation. Il a cite a ce propos une declaration faite alors par le represelltant de la Chine. M. Tsarapkine a sur moi 1'avantage d'avoir le compte rendu sous les yeux. Je n'ai pas ce texte, mais j'ai participe au debat, et je ferai appel a mes souvenirs. Du reste, j'ai remarque que le President souriait en entendant la declaration du representant de 1'Union sovietique, car je crois que le President a egalement assiste a la seance dont il s'agit. La _citation qui a ete donnee par le representant de l'URSS n'est pas complete. Lorsque, a cette seance, j'ai appuye M. Johnson, tout en faisant certaines reserves, j'ai rappele, il m'en souvient, au debut de mon intervention, cette coutume chinoise: lorsqu'on ouvre un nouveau magasin, l'habitude est de faire un cadeau au premier client qui se presente. En 1946, les Nations Unies examinaient les premieres demandes d'admission, et •nous voulions marquer l'evenement par une mesure speciale. J'ai fait aussi cette reserve que j'appuyais la motion a condition qu'elle soit approuvee a 1'unanimite; teletait le sens de ma declaration, si je ne m'en rappelle point les termes exacts. Par la suite, cette motion n'a pas ete aoceptee, et M. Johnson a retire son projet de resolution. La delegation de la Chine n'a pas appuye la proposition tendant a admettre en bloc un groupe de pays en application d'une politique ou d'un principe; il ne s'agissait que d'une exception. Qu'il me'soit permis d'ajouter que, pour etre complet, le representant de l'URSS aurait du rappeler l'attitude prise'par sa delegation a l'epoque. Or, le representant de l'URSS n'en a pas parle. Je n'ai pris la parole que pour mettre ~les choses au pqint• .Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'anglais) : On dira peut-etre que j'ai l'esprit trop procedurier, mais je voudrais, au moins pour le proces-verbal, faire' observer qu'a mon avis le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine n'a pas par1e sur une questiond'ordre; son intervention a eu un tout autre caractere, et je ne puis la considerer .comme portant sur une question d'ordre. J'aideja parIe il y a deux j9urs [443eme seance] de la position de la delegation: de l'Union sovietique; j'estimeencore que cette delegation a le droit de demander que son projet de resolution fasse l'objet d'un vote, soit dans son texte actuel, soit par division, soit avec des amendements appropries-et j'insiste sur le mot "appropries";. Voila le seul terrain sur lequel je puisse suivre la delegation de, l'URSS. Le representant de l'Union sovietiquenous a presente aujourd'hui toutes sortes d'arguments heteroclites; quelques-uns de ces ,arguments peuvent, jusqu'a. un certain point, paraitre plausibles. I It was embarrassingly clear that our position was, to say the least,· illogical when two days ago we were asked by the representative of the Soviet Union, after he had vetoed seven applications, to approve the thirteen applications, including the very applications which had been vetoed only a few minutes beforehand. If that is not illogical, I do not know what the word "illogical" meanS. I cannot help saying that the real reasons which have inspired the action and position of the USSR delegation in this connexion had nothing in common with the letter and spirit of th~ Charter.. They are related too clearly, too shamefully, I regret to say, to the fact that the Soviet Union does not consider the acceptance of certain applications to be a good bargain in so far as it is concerned. Therefore, it seems that we are not here to applythe principles of the Charter, but to try to obtain some good bargain for our own countries individually. I_ do not object to thinking in terms of our own countries when we work here, but it might bea matter of foresight, propriety and honesty to think of this interest, while we are working as Members of the United Nations, through the letter and spirit of the Charter and the purposes of the United Nations. Until a while ago, I used to think that the representative of· the Soviet Union was only wrong, but it is clear by now that he is also angry. I· think we can all.agree, and I am sure that the representative of the Soviet Union will agree with us, that anger is not a valid argument and that. an impatient gesture is not an opinion. Mr. ARcE (Argentina) (translated from Spanish): I feel slightly confused, at the turn ...taken -~Yt this ,debate, which· hasalready. been Si le representant de l'URSS et aussi, semblet-il, le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine paraissent estimer qu'il existe une contradiction entre l'attitude prise en 1946 par diverses delegations, dont la mienne, au sujet du projet de resolution des Etats-Unis et, d'autre part, l'attitude que nous prenons aujourd'hui relativ.ement au projet de resolution de l'Union sovietique, la raison en est claire et fondee sur des faits evidents. I1 etait clair - dair an point d'en etre genant - que nous nous sommes trouves il y a deux joms dans une situation illogique, Iprsque le representant de l'URSS, apres qu'il eut.oppose son veto a sept demandes d'admission, nqlls _ invita [S/1340/Rev.1] 2. accepter les treize demandes d'admission, y compris les demandes qui, quelques minutes auparavant, avaientfait l'objet de son veto. Si ce n'est pas laune situation illogique, je ne saispas ce que le mot "illogique" signifie. Je ne puis pas m'empecher de dire que la position. adoptee en ce cas •par la delegation_ de l'URSSet l'action qu'elle a menee ont certainement ete inspireespar des motifs qui ne s'accordent ni ave.c l'esprit ni avec la lettre de la Charte. Cette attitude de l'Union sovil~tique n'est que trop clairement, trop cyniquement liee, j'ai le regret de le dire, au faif que cepaysestime que, en aceeptant certaines demandes.d'admissi6h, il ne ferait pas une bonne affaire. Cela revient a dire. que nous ne serions pas ici pour appliquer les principes de'la Charte, mais pour essayer d'obtenir certains avantages en faveur de nos pays respectifs~ Je ne m'oppose pas a ce que .chacun de nous pense a son pays en travaillant iei, mais la prevoyance, le sens des convenances, l'honnetete doivent nous inciter, nous, Membres des Nations Unies,a n'envisager l'interet de notre pays qu'en nous inspirant de l'esprit et de la lettre de la Charte et des buts de l'Organisation. Je croyais, jusqu'il y a un moment, que le representant de l'URSS commettait simplement une erreur, mais je vois maintenant que la colere l'anime. Nous pensonstous, et je suiscertain que le representant de l'Union sovietique sera de cet avis, que la colere ne suffit pas a justifier un argument, et que faire un geste d'impatience, .ce n'est pas .enoricer une opinion. M. ARCE. (Argentine) (traduit d~ l'e.~pagnol) : Je suis quelque peu surpris de voir le tour pris par cettediscussion qui a deja trop dure. Il y In this respect the Charter is absolutely clear. We are obliged to consider the qualifications of each particular country in order to take our decision. That is the first point. But in the second place, how could we, the members of the Security Council, be compelled to vote in favour of or against the recommendation concerning twelve or thirteen countries, which include, as the representati~e of ,Egypt has just reminded us, seven or eight that were rejected during the previo!' ~ meeting? , . . " Those who might 'wisn to vote in favour of the recommendations which have been rej\..cted would have to reconsider the matter, and, so far; no motion for reconsideration has been submitted. Let us suppose that when the President puts the United States motion to the vote it were defeated, and that members were to approve the USSR delegation's view that the proposal contained .in the draft resolution before us should be voted on as a whole. ' I wish to state at onc~and all those wh~"feel as I do could do the 5am~that I am not going to participate in thelOte. My reason for abstaining is that I cannot be asked to vote that black is white or that white is black. 1 cautiot be asked to vote for a group of thirteen or fourteen countries when I am not prepared to vote for four or five of them. I cannot be asked to vote against the applications of seven or eight countries when I would be ready to vote for them individually. There is, of course, no rule in the rules of procedure ofthe Security Council which 'compels us, the members of this Council, to vote contrary to our convictions,or our conscience or the instructions, which ouri "Governments havT given us. That being so, how could I, for example, do other than refuse to take part in the discussion?Andif., five countries were not to participate in the vote, the Council would not have a quorum and no resolution could be adopted. If we are prepared to vote, in favour of seven or eight applications fot'membership, and against four or five, of the countries listed in the USSR draft resolution, we cannot be asked to vote in favour of all their applications or against all of them, because obviously we would be acting contrary to our convictions. l1:is for this reason, I repeat, that if the United States representative's motion, which I intend to, support, meet":' with approval, I shall have peace of mind. If, on the other hand, the USSR delegation's point of view that we should vote on all the countries' as a group were accepted, since I am prepared to vote in favour of the applications of some of those States and against A cet egard, les dispositions. de la Charte sont parfaitement claires. It nous faut, avant de nous prononcer, examiner la situation particuliere de chaque pays. C'est la. le premier point. Mais, en second lieu, comment les membres du Conseil de securite pourraient-ils etre tenus de voter pour ou contre une proposition qui recommanrle douze ou treize demandes d'admission, dont sept ou huit ont ete rejetees a. la demiere seance, ainsi que vient de le faire remarquer le representant de l'Egypte? Ceux qui se proposeraient de voter en faveur des demandes d'admission qui ont ete rejetees se verraient dans l'obligation de reexaminer la question; or, jusqu'a. present, personne n'a fonnule de proposition dans ce sens. Supposons done que, lorsque le President mettra aux voix la proposi. tion des Etats-Unis, celle-d soit rejetee et que le point de vue de la delegation de l'URSS l'eJ;Ilporte, a. savoir qu'il nous faut voter sur l'ensemble du projet de. resolution presente par cette delegation. Je declare sans hesiter - et tous ceux qui par· tagent mon avispourraient faire de meme - que je ne prendrai pas part au vote. Pourquoi? Parce que person..ne ne saurait me contraindre a. reconnaitre par mon vote que le noir est blanc ou que le' blanc est noir. Personne ne saurait me contraindre a. 'voter en faveur de l'admissionde treize ou quatorze pays, alors que j e ne suis pas. dispose a. voter pour quatre ou cinq d'entre eux. Personne ne saurait me contraindre de voter contre les demandes d'admission de sept ou huit pays, alar;:; que je' serais dispose a. voter separement en faveur de chacune d'elles. Je m'abstiendrai done, parce' qu'aucune disposition du reglemerttinterieur du Conseil de securite n'oblige l~s representants a. ce Conseil aemettre un vote con· traire a. leur opinion, a leur conscience ou aux instructions "qu'iIs ont rec;ues de leur Gouvernement. Comment serait-il possible d'eviter, par exemple,que je refuse de prendre part a. la dis" cussion? Or, des l'instantou dnq inembres du Conseil s'abstiennent de prendre part a. un vote, . le quorumrequis, ne peut etre at;:eint, et le Conseil est incapable d'adopter une resolution. Si certains d'entre nous ont l'intention de voter pour sept ou huit des demandes d'admissionqui. figurent dans la proposition de l'Union sovietique, et .contre les quatre ou dnq autres, on ne saurait leur demander de voter pour ou contre l'ensemble de ces demandes d'admission; il est evident,en effet, que ces representants agiraient contrairenient aleurs propres convictionn. Aussi serai-je en paix av~c moi-meme si la proposition du representant des Etats-Unispour laquelle je me dois de voter - est adopt~e; au contraire, si le point de vue de la delegatlOn de l'URSS l'emporte, et si nous devons v?ter su: l'ensemble de toutes les candidatllres, Je seral oblige -'- bien a. regret d'ailleurs - de ne pas prendre part au vote, parce que je suis en faveu I feel it is necessary, for these reasons, to En consequence, j'estime qu'il faut clore le close this debate and to affirm that it involves debat, en precisant qu'ils'agit d'une question de a question of su~stance, that. there are rep~efond: ce.rtains membres v,euler;t ;roter en ~aveur sentatives who WIsh to vote m favour of the de certalnes demandes d admISSIOn, et d autres admission of certain countries, and there are - peut-etre les memes - veulent voter contre others, perhaps the sar:le representatives, who 'i:e1le ou telle autre demande. On ne saurait donc wish to vote against that of others. In those cirdemander it aucun d'entre eux de votet en faveur cumstances they cannot be asked to vote either de certaines demandes d'admission, ni de voter ID favour of some of the applications of those contre certaines autres. Ils ne peuvent se pronon- States or against that of others. They cannot cer ni pour, ni contre, et - je le repete - vote either "yes" or "no", and, I repeat that puisque la Charte exige qu'il soit procede it un since the Charter requires that each application vote dans chaque cas particulier et puisque le should be voted upon separately, and since the reglement interieur du Conseil ne saurait. faire rules of procedure of the Security Council canviolence it notre conscience, la solution consiste a not go against our conscience, the solution would quitter la table du Conseil pendant la duree du be for us to leave the Council chflmber until the vote. Mais alors,si les cinq membres qui se voting is over. If, however, five members were voyaient -contraints de trahir leur conscience s'abto refuse to vote against their convictions and sentaient au moment du vote, le quorum ne serait were to leave, there would be no quorum and no pas atteint, et il serait impossible de prendre.une decision could be taken. decision. These considerations, apart altogether from the opinion of the Court and all the precedents which have been mentioned here, impel me to ask members of the Council to consider the facts as they are, because, should a delegation once have made a proposal, it does not have to continue to support it for ever if it has altered its opinion or if new facts have led it to change its attitude. .Simply stated, the Charter r~quires, as we have pointed out in previous observations, that a separate vote should be taken in each particular case, and neither the Charter nor the rules of procedure of the Security Council, nor.any person, power or law in the world, can force us to vote against our firm beliefs. Whether I were to vote in favour or against the draft resolution as a whole, I ShOl1id be voting against my convictions. If I abstained and remained in the Council chamber,or in other words, if I helped to constitute a quorum, I would also be acting against my convictions, because I would be concealing the fact that my opinions oblige me to absent myself from the meeting. . In .this procedural matter I have thus merely expres.sed my delegation's point of view. I do not WIsh to intervene in any political discussion among the great Powers represented here, nor do I. wish to interfere with the President's decisiom~. I do wish, however, to call attention to a case of conscience. We are obliged to take separate votes on the matter in hand, and if we are forced to pronounce on the proposal as a whole, I shall not participate in the vote. Mr: .TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist .. RepublIcs) (translated from Russian): Similar .. -- Toutes ces raisons m'amenent it inviter les membres du Conseil a bien considerer les faits tels qu'ils se presentent, abstraction faite de l'a-vis de la Cour internationale de Justice et de tous les precedents auxquels on a fait allusion ici ; en effet, si une delegation apresente un jour une proposition, elle n'est pas tenue de la presenter indefiniment si elle a changed'avis ou si des faits nouveaux l'ont contrainte de changer d'avis. Il n'existe aucune autorite ni aucune loi au monde qui nous oblige a voter contrairement a nos opinions ;.Ia raison en est purement et simplement que la Charte, oComme nous l'avons soutenu dans nos declarations anterieures, exige·qu'il soit procede aun vote separe dans chp.que cas particulier, et que ni la Charte, ni.le reglement interieur. du Conseil de securite, niquoi que ce soit ne peut exiger de nous une telle attitude. Que je vote pour ou contre l'ensemble duo projet de resolution, je trahirais ma conscience, Si je m'ahstenais de voter tout en demeurant dans la salle du Conseil, c'est-a-dire en permettant que le quorum soit atteint, je manquerais egalement a mes I.:onvi-ctions, parce que je disslmulerais le fait que ma conscience m'oblige a quitter la salle. Je viens d'exposer simplement le point de vue de ma delegation au sujet de cette question de procedure, et je ne veux prendre part a atlCU1Lle discussion de caractere politique qui pourrait s'elever entre les grandes Puissances repr.esentees ici ; je ne tiens pas davantage agener le President dans les decisions qu'il doit prendre, mais·je tiens a signaler un cas de conscience : noussommes tenus de voter separement sur chaque candidature, et, si on nous oblige a voter sur l'ensemble de la proposition, je ne prendrai pas partau vote. One thing is perfectly clear: either the Council will proceed to violate rule 32 of the rules of procedure or Wg must act in accordance with the rules of procedure. The second paragraph of rule 32 states: "Parts of a motion or of a draft resolution shall be voted on separately at the request of any representative, unless the original mover objects." When he first introduced his draft resolution, the representative of me Soviet Union objected to that draft resolution being divided. That is a p~rfeCtlY clear situation. If I had not objected, the United States motion would have been in order. But since I object to my draft resolution being divided, the United States motion is out of order. It is unacceptable. Any other solution of this question would be illegal in that-and I should like this to be included in. the record-it would be an arbitrary act and a violation of the rules of procedure of the. Security Council, as a result of which any rule would be in danger. Furthermore, if the United States representative's motion is carefully considered, it is impossible to escape the conclusion that it is impracticable. The Egyptian representative was right when he stated that he could not see how the draft resolution could be divided. I£weagreed·tethe United States representative's motion, we should, in fact, be confronted with thirteen draft resolutions. We would have to vote on thirteen resolutions separately. But the representative of the Soviet Union introduced one draft resolution, not thirteen. We have already voted on seven resolutions, to the great delight of the Argentine representative. The joy on his face when he obtained seven negative votes was obvious to everyone. He did not conceal his joy; he openly exulted~ May I say that this is the first time I have met with such an irresponsible attitude to the question. In sum, rule 32 is not irrelevant. We should vote not on thirteen draft resolutions but on one, and I object to its being divided into part-s. In the circumstances the United States representative's motion is not in order; it is contrary to rule 32, and there is nothing in the rules of procedure which would justify the action which the United States representath.:: proposes. If, in such circumstances, the President intends tp put the motion of the United States representative to the vote, I shall ask him to indicate on what rUle ot procedure he is doing so. Only. if he shows me that rule of procedure will I be convinced that his actions are correct. If he does not show me some rule of procedure to justify ·putting the United States representative's La question qui se pose est tres claire: ou bien le Conseil decidera d'enfreindre l'article 32 du reglement interieur, ou bien il se conformera a ce reglement interieur. Le deuxieme paragraphe de l'article 32 a la teneur suivante: "La division est de droit si elle est demandee, a. moins que l'auteur de la proposition ou du projet de resolution ne s'y oppose." Or, le representant de l'Union sovietique s'oppose a. la division du projet de resolution qu'll a presente. La situation est done parfaitement claire. Si je n'avais pas eleve d'objections, la motion des Etats-Unis aurait ete conforme au reglement interieur; mais, puisque je m'oppose a la division de mon projet de resolution, la motion des Etats-Unis n'est pas conforme au reglement et ne peut etre acceptee. Toute autre solution de la question serait iIIegale; je demande donc qu'il soit inscrit au proci~s­ verbal que l'adoption de cette proposition constituerait une mesure arbitraire, prise en violation du reglement interieur et menal$ant ipso facto chacun des articles de ce reglement. De plus, si 1'on examine la motion presentee par le representant des Etats-Unis - et contre laquelle je m'eleve - on ne peut manquer de l ,elure que cette motion ne peut, en fait, etre mise en application. Le representant de 1'Egypte a eu raisen de dire qu'il lui semblait impossible de diviser le projet de resolution. La motion des Etats-Unis tend, en reaIite, a. creer treize projets de resolution distincts quiseraient mis aux voix separement. Or, .le representant de l'URSS a depose un seul projet de resolution, et non pas treize. Le Conseil a d·~ja. vote sur sept projets de resolution, et le representant de l'Argentine a considere cela comme un triomphe. Sa figure s'est empreinte de joie lorsqu'il a obtenu sept votes negatifs; il n'a pas dissimule sa satisfaction; i1 exultait. C'est la premiere fois que je vois aborder une question avec aussi peu de serieux. La question de I'artic1e 32 se pose toujours. Ce ne sont pas treizeprojets de resolution qu'il convient de mettre aux voix,mais un seul; je m'oppose, pour ma part, iL ce que ce projet soit divise. Dans ces conditions, la motion du representant des Etats-Unis n'est pas conforme au reglement; eUe est contraire a. 1'artic1e 32. Le reglement interieur ne contient aucune disposition qui puisse justifier l'adoption de la mesure que propose le representant des Etats-Unis. Si le President desire, malgre tout, mettre aux voix la motion du representant des Etats-Unis, je lui .demanderai de m'indiquer 1'artic1e du reglement sur leq~el i1 fonde sa decision. Je ne serai convainctt du caractere judicieux de la mesure prise par le President que si celui-ci m'indique l'articIe auquel il se rHere. S'il n'est pas en etat de preciser l'artide du reglement interieur qui I repeat he may obtain a majority, but that will not regularize his actions; they will still remain irregular. The PRESIDENT: If a majority upholds me, I think I should be in the right. Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian) : Certainly not. The PRESIDENT: The representative of the USSR has referred this morning to certain precedents. There is, of course, another precedent which he does not mention and which does not suit his case particularly well. That is the precedent of 1947 when a similar case arose and when a proposal was made [204th meeting]-I think it was.a Polish proposal-that we should vote on a number of candidates together; certain members took objection to that. The Belgian representative moved a motion in the following terms [206th meeting] : "The Security Council resolves to hold a separate and final vote on each application for membership." That was objected to by the Polish representative who said: "I do not see any reason why we should vote on the Belgian proposal, which, I believe, is contrary to rule 32." . The Belgian representative, Mr. van Langenh~ve, replied: "I must disagree with the Polish representative's interpretation of rule 32 of the provisional rules of procedure. This rule states: It. •• Parts . of a motion or of a draft resolution shall be voted on separately at the request of any representative, unless the original mover objects." That is the text of the rule. Mr. van Langenhove then continued: "This means"-and this is very much what I sai~ this morning-"that any propvsal may be spht up, which does not require a decision by the Council unless the original mover objects. Bu~ the Council is perfectly free to decide to spht up the proposal." That was apparently accepted by the CounCil because the Belgian motion was put to th~ vote and carried by 9 votes to 2. In view of that and in view of what I have said ear!ier on, I myself am quite satisfied in my own mmd that I should put to the vote the United States motion which I have already read to the Council. It is worded in these terms: "I move, as a procedural matter, that the action It]e propose, comme motion de procedure, que, of the Security Council on this draft resolution en examinant le projet de resolution Sj1340, le S/1340 be taken up by separate consideration and Conseil de ~ecurite proc€d~ par division et qu'il ~separate vote_take~ on the. different applications mette aux voix separement les demandes d'ad- ] e tiens a repeter que meme l'approbation de la majorite ne peut justifier l'attitude du President, ni conferer a celle-ci un caractere legal. '. e PRESIDENT (trad1tit de l'anglais): Si la ~ : or~te me soutient, cela prouvera, je pense, que fat ralson. M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (traduit d1$ n!<sse): Absolument pas. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais) : Le representant de l'URSS a evoque ce matin certains precedents, mais il existe un autre precedent qu'il n'a pas mentionne et qui, du reste, ne vient pas a l'appui de sa these. Ce precedent date de 1947: un cas du meme genre s'est produit, et I'on a propose [204eme seance] - je pense que cette proposition emanait de la Pologne - de voter en bloc sur un certain nombre de candidatures, mais quelques membres s'y sont opposes. Le representant de la Be1gique a alors presente la motion suivante [206Mne seance]. "Le Conseil decide de voter separement et definitivement sur chaque demande d'admission." Le representant de la Pologne s'est oppose a cette motion en declarant: - "]e ne vois aucune raison de voter sur la proposition de la Belgique, qui,· aUlon avis est contraire aux dispositions de l'article 32." ' M. van Langenhove, representant de la Belgique, aalors replique: "Je dois contester l'interpretation que le representant de la Pologne donne de l'article 32 du reglement interieur provisoire. Cet article dit: "La division est de droit si e1le est demandee a moins que l'auteur de la proposition'ou du projet de resolution ne s'y oppose." Tel est le texte de l'artic1e. M. van Langenhove a declare ensuite, et cela correspond a ce que j'ai dit moi-meme ce matin: "Cela. veut· dire que la division est accordee, sans decision du Conseil, si l'auteur de la proposition s'y oppose. Mais le Conseil peut parfaitement decider la division de la proposition." 11 semble que le Conseil ait accepte ce point de vue, car la motion de la Belgique mise aux voix a ~te adoptee par 9 voix contre 2. Dans ces conditions, et pour les motifs que fai ~ deja exposes, je m'estime en droit de mettre aux voix la motion des Etats-Unis dontle texi:efen ai deja donne lecture - est le suivant: Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): The President has not answered my question as to the rule of procedure on which he is basing himself in putting the United States motion to the vote.
The President unattributed #155237
I am proposing to put to the • vote a motion made by the United States representative who has a perfect right to make that motion, as is admitted by many members of the Council who maintain that the Council can decide its own procedure. You do not have to base any motion that you bring forward ir~ t.t:.e Security Council on any particular rule of procedure. If so, where is that rule of procedure ? Mr. MANUILSKY (Ukrainian Soviet SQcialist Republic) (translated from Russian) : I consider the precedent which is being set by the President to be extremely dangerous. I am not even speaking of the possible result of this vote; that does not concern me. I consider the precedent itself irregular. Imagine that at future meetings of the Security Council we adopt the procedure which the present President has established. We would have no rules of procedure and questions would, in effect, be decided as this or that President took it into his head to decide them. That would be a clear violation of the procedure laid down ft._ the Security Council. The President wish~s to perpetrate a fourth violation. He had already perpetrated three on which votes were taken. That voting showed that he ()tlly obtained 5 votes in support of his conduct of the meeting, with 3 against and 3 abstentions. That means that six representatives did not support him and that he only obtained five votes in favour of his conduct of business. He now wishes to perpetrate a fourth violation. Let him do so! But allow me to say that it does nothing to justify his method of connucting the debate or to establish greater order in the work of the Council. The Security Council has already held, many meetings and the Presidents on the Security Coun'" cil have taken into account the will of the majority.. their opinions and the rules of procedure. The present situation in which the President does as he wishes, is without precedent. I repeat that. like the delegation of the USSR, the delegation of· the Ukrainian SSR cannot agree to such a method of conductingb~siness.
The President unattributed #155240
The member of the Council who has just spoken complains that the President of the Council is acting as he pleases. I wish he were: I am afraid he is always subject to this Council and the decisions it fakes. But, as it happens, he feels he has no alternative and that M. TSARAPKINE (Union des RepubIiques sodalistes sovietiques) (trad1tit du r1F.~e) : Le President n'a pas repondu a ma q_.ion; je lui ai demande sur quel article du reglement interieur il se fonde pour mettre aux voix la motion des Etats-Unis. Le PRESIDENT (tradttit de l'anglais) : Je propose de mettre aux voix la motion soumise par le Gouvernement des Etats-Unis, lequel est parfaitement en droit de presenter cette motion, comme 1'0nt declare de nombreux membres du Conseil qui estiment que le Conseil a la liberte de choisir la procedure a suivre. Lorsque l'on presente une motion au Conseil, il n'est pas necessaire de s'appuyer sur un article particulier du reglement interieur. Dans ce cas, de quel article du reglement s'agirait-il? M. MANUILSKY (RepubIique socialiste sovietique cl'Ukraine) (traduit du nesse) : J'estime que le precedent que l'on est en train de creer est extremement dangereux. Je n'envisage meme pas la question de savoir quel sera le resultat du votei c'est le precedent lui-meme qui n'est pas regulier. Si 1'0n adoptait, pour la conduite future des debats, la methode introduite par le President actuel du Conseil de securite, le Conseil n'aurait plus de reglement interieur, et les questions seraient tranchees a la convenance de chaque President. Ce serait la. une infraction radicale aux methodes de travail du Conseil de securite. Le President veut actuellement commettre une quatrieme infraction. I1 en a deja commis trois, qui ont fait l'objet d'un vote. Or, ce vote a demontre que la methode adoptee par le President pour conduire les debats n'a ete approuvee que par 5 voix contre 3, avec 3 abstentions; autrement dit, six des membres du Conseil n'ont pas approuve son attitude; et il n'a eu que cinq voix en sa faveur. Le President s'apprete maintenant a commettre une quairiem:e infraction. Libre a lui de le faire, mais je dois dire que cela ne justinera en rien sa methode de conduire les debats ni ne mettra plus d'ordre dans les travaux du Conseil. Le Conseil de securite a deja te.nu bien des seances; au cours de ces seances, les Presidents du Conseil de securite ont toujours tenu compte de la volonte de lamajorite, de l'opinion des membres et du reglement interieur. Or, maintenant, le President agit a sa guise, ce qui est un fait sans precedent. Je declare encore une fois que la delegation de la RSS d'Ukraine, au meme titre que la delegation de l'URSS, ne peut accepter cette maniere de conduire les debats. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglaiS): 'Le membre du Conseil qui vient de parler accuse le President d'agir selon son bon plaisir. Je souhaiterais que ce representant eut raison, mais le President doit toujours se conformer a l'avis et aux decisions du Conseil. Dans le cas present, le ~-- Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Rttssian): If the motion of the United States representative that the Soviet Union delegation's draft resolution should be voted upon in parts is put to the vote despite my objections, that is to say, the objections of the representative who introduced the draft resolution, that will be counter to rule 32 of the rules of procedure. I maintain that the motion of the United States representative is out of order and therefore cannot be put to the vote. .The PRESIDENT: Is that a motion on the part of the representative of the Soviet Union? Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Rztssian) : Yes.
The President unattributed #155242
A motion has been made that the motion previously presented by the representative of the United States is out of order. I shall put it to the vote. A vote was taken by show of hands.. as follows: In favour: Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Against: Canada, China, Cuba, Egypt, France, Norway, United Kingdom, United States of America. Abstaining: Argentina. The motion was rejected by 8 votes to 2 with 1 abstention. .
The President unattributed #155245
The motion of the representative of the USSR falls, and the consequence of that is that the United States motion is in order. Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): I only wish to point out that by recognizing that the United States motionis in order, the majority of the Security Council has legalized illegality and arbitrariness. I should like this statement to be' included in the record: the majority of the Security Council has taken an arbitrary step and in violation of ntle 32 of the Council's rules of procedure. r should like this to be included in the record. I take full responsibility for this statement. Mr. MANUILSKY (Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic) (translated from' Russian) : The delegation of the Ukrainian SSR wholly and entirely associates itself with the statement which has just been made by the USSR representative.
The President unattributed #155248
Of course the words of the representatives of the Soviet Union and the Ukrainian SSR are recorded in the verbatim record as they were given; that is to say, though I cannot remember the exact words, words to the effect that this decision was illegal. I only regret that the representative of the Soviet Union did not give·any explanation as to why it was illegal. It est procede at£, vote a11zain levee. V otent pour: Republique socialiste sovietique d'Ukraine, Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques. Vo,tent contre: Canada, Chine, Cuba, Egypte, France, Norvege, Royaume-Uni, Etats-Unis d'Amerique. S'abstient: l'Argentine. Par 8 voix contre 2, avec une abstention, la motion est rejetee. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): La motion du representant de l'URSS est rejetee; la motion emanant des Etats-Unis est done recevable. M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (traduit flu ntsse) : Je desire simplement faire observer que, en declarant recevable la proposition des Etats-Unis, la majorite du Conseil a 1<~gitime l'illegal et l'arbitraire. Je demande que mes paroles soient inscrites au proces-verbal: la majorite du Conseil de securite a agi arbitrairement et en violation de 1'article 32 du reglement interieur du Conseil de securite. Je demande que ces paroles soient inscrites au proces-verbal, j'en prends la pleine responsabilite. M. MANUILSKY (Republique socialiste sovietique d'Ukraine) (traduit du russe) : La delegation de la RSS d'Ukraine s'associe pleinement et sans reserve a la declaration que vient de faire le representant de 1'URSS. . Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Les declarations des representants de 1'URSS et de la RSS d'Ukraine seront, bien entendu, reproduites mot a mot dans le compte rendu stenographique. Ces declarations,dont je n'ai pas note lestermes exacts, signifient que notre decision est irreguliere, mais je regrette que le representant de l'Union sovietique n'ait pas explique pourquoi cette decision serait irregulier~. I say this with deep regret. You will know how much our delegation is against global voting on these applications for membership, and I should like to find some way out so as to avoid this global voting. In this connexion, and in order to avoid too many interventions on the part of my delegation, I would say that, generally'speaking, I. subscribe to the explanation given today by our colleague from Argentina with regard to the way of voting. He is encountering a similar difficulty to that to whkh I drew attention the other day in connexion with this voting. Our voting for or against, or even our abstention, would cause us to do something against what we believe should be done, but I am not going to give all the explanations all over again. I differ from the representative of Argentina in the method of applying this. He is thinking of leaving the chamber, or something like that. I have already said, I am not going to leave the chamber. and that I am going to take part in the vote. I believe that it is my duty to take part in it; I want to discharge my responsibilities as a member of the Security Council. But I want to reiterate what I said the other day, that if I abstain, that absten;=')11 really should be taken as non-participation in the voting, because -there is no fourth method of voting in the Security Council. There is only voting for, against or abstaining; however, when I abstain, I want it to be considered as non-participation in the voting. Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union. of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): I asked to speak in cQnnexion with the President's statement. The decision which has just been taken by a majority of the Council is irregular. I feel that I have given a sufficiently weighty explanation of why that decision is illegal. It is illegal because the United States motion to divide the vote on the Soviet "Onion draft resolution despite objections from the author of that draft resolution, namely the representative of the Soviet Union, is illegal. It should not have been put to the vote as it was in direct contradiction to rule 32 of the rules of procedure and constituted a flagrant violation of that rule. In fac~, that decision renders rule 32 null and void. I have already explained this and I cannot understand why the President states that I have given no explanation. Je regrette d'avoir a. faire cette declaration. Vous savez combien notre delegation est opposee a. un vote global sur ces demandes d'admission et, je voudrais que nous trouvions le moye~ d'eviter ce vote global. Je voudrais dire a. ce sujet, et afin.que ma delegation n'ait pas a. intervenir trop souvent dans le debat, que j'approuve d'une fac;on generale l'intervention du representant de l'Argentine relative a. la procedure de vote; ce repI:esentant se trouve, en ce qui concerne ce vote, en presence des memes difficultes que ce1les que rai moi-meme exposees l'autre jour. Que nous voHons pour, que nous votions contre, ou que nous nous abstenions, nous agirons en partie contrairement a. ce que nous voudrions qui ftit fait; mais je ne vais pas de nouveau expliquer ce1a en detail. Je n'ai pas le meme avis que le representant de l'Argentine sur ce qu'il convient de faire en ce cas; il a l'intention de sortir de la saIle ou de faire un geste de ce genre. J'ai deja dit Que je ne sortirai pas de la salle, et que je prendrai part au vote; j'~stime, eneffet, que mon devoir est de prendre part au vote. Je dois m'acquitter de mes fonctions de membre du Conseil de securite, mais je tiens a. repeter ce que j'ai dit l'autre joqr, a savoir que, si je m'abstiens, cette abstention signifiera veritablement que je ne participe pas au vote, car il n'y a pas au Conseil de securite quatre fac;ons de voter: il faut voter pour, DU contre, ou encores'abstenir. J e tiens a. ce que mon abstention signifie bien que je ne participe pas au vote. M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques sodalistes sovietiques) (traduit du russe): J'ai demande la parole pour relever la remarque faite par le President. La decision que la majorite du . Conseil vient de prendre est illegale. Il me semble que j'ai donne des raisons suffisamment fortes pour prouver que cette decision n'est pas valable. Elle n'est pas valable parce que la motion des Etat~-Unis visant a ce que le projet de resolution de l'Union sovietique fasse l'objet d'un vote par division ne peut etre retenue, du moment que l'auteur du projet de resolution, le representant de l'Union sovietique, s'oppose a. cette procedure. Cette proposition ne doit pas etre mise aux voix parce qu'elle est absolumentc.ontraire aux dispositions de l'artic1e 32 du reglement interieur et parce qu'elle y contrevient d'une maniere flagrante. En fait, {:ette decision supprime l'artic1e 32 du reglement interieur. J'avais deja donne cette explication, et je ne comprends pas pourquoi le President declare· que je n'ai fourni aucun ec1air~issement a. ce sujet. I believe one of the questions put by the representative of Egypt was, if the United States motion is carried, exactly how would the USSR draft resolution be divided and voted upon. I am not the author of that motion, and I do nbt know. Perhap.s the representative of the United States could give us a definite indication in that matter of procedure, assuming that his motion would be adopted. Mr. AUSTIN (United States of America): I have not asked for the draft resolution to be divided. The natural result of the Security Council's decision to vote upon these applications separately would be that they would be voted upon separately. That is all. The representative of· Norway put the matter so clearly that I thought there would be no further discussion. We would be voting according to our decision taken here. We would not be dividing any motion that is before us.
The President unattributed #155250
I am sorry if I used the wrong word. I looked at the text of the United States motion which says that, as a procedural matter, a separate vote should be taken on the different applications. . I am still not quite sure how that would be done or whether it would be necessary to have separate draft resolutions submitted to the Security Council. I am not quite clear 011 the machinery that should be employed in that event. Mr. AUSTIN (United States of America) : By voting on the draft resolution offered by the United States, we would be making the decision. We would then take up the applicants one by one in Lite order named in the USSR draft resolution and vote upon each one separately. However, I assume that there might be a point of order raised in connexion with those that have already been aded upon to the effec·~ that they cannot be rev~ewed in this manner. That would force us to ~o exactly what the representative of the Ukrain- Ian SSR proposed at our last meeting, but which was evidently overruled by the representative of the Soviet Union.
The President unattributed #155252
That is to say that there would be no actual form of words recommending the admission of this or that country. I should merely state that the question of Finland is now before the Security Council, or the case of Portugal, etc. I understand. I wonder if that reply satisfies the doubts of the representative of Egypt. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'angla,is): Bien entendu, l'artic1e 32 reste en vigueur, puisqu'il n'a pas ete abroge. Une des questions posees, je crois, par le representant de l'Egypte portait sur le point de savoit de quelle fa<;on il faudrait proceder a la division et a la mise aux voix du projet de resolution de l'URSS si la proposition des Etats-Unis est adoptee. N'etant pas l'auteur de cette proposition, je ne puis repondre a cette question. Le representant des Etats-Unis peut-il nous donner des indications precises sur la maniere suivant laqueUe on pourra dans ce cas mettre la question aux voix? M. AUSTIN '(Etats-Unis d'Amerique) (traduit de l'anglais) : Je n'ai pas demande la division du projet de resolution. La decision du Conseil de securite de proceder a des votes separes sur chacune de .ces demandes d'admission aura naturellement pour consequence de nous faire adopter cette procedure, mais den de plus. Le representant de la NoTvege nous a presente la question d'une fa<;on si claire, que je croyais qu'elle etait entierement reglee. Nous procMerons au vc-te conformement a la decision que nous aurons prise. n ne faudra proceder a la division d'aucune proposition qui nous est soumise. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Je m'excuse d'avoir employe un terme inexact. J'ai pris en consideration le texte de la motion des Etats-Unis qui propose de voter sur chaque demande d'admission separement. Je ne sais pas encore comment il conviendra de preceder et s'ilsera necessaire de presenter au Conseil de securite des projets de resolution separes pour chacune des demandes d'admission. Je ne vois pas encore tres bien quelle methode il faudra employer dans ce cas. M. AUSTIN (Etats-Unis d'Amerique) (traduit de l'anglais): I1 me semble que cette decision relative a la procedure sera acquise par le resultat du vote sur le projet de resolution presente par les Etats-Vnis. Nous prendrons alors les demaIl- . des d'admission une a une suivant l'ordre dans lequel e1les sont enumerees dans le projet de resolution de l'URSS, et nous les mettrons aux voix l'une apres l'autre. Cependant, je suppose que, au sujet des demandes d'admission ayant deja fait l'objet d'un vote, on pourra soulever une question d'ordre en faisant valoir qu'il est impossible de les reconsiderer de cette maniere. Ainsi, nous pourrions etre obliges d'adopter la procedure suggeree a notre derniere seance par le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine, qui a cependant ete manifestement rejetee parle representant de l'Union sovietique. Le PRESIDENT (traduit .de I'anglais): En somme, si j'ai bien compris, it n'y aura pas de formule recommandant l'admission de tel ou tel pays. Je me bomerai a dire simplement que le Conseil de securite est appele a se prononcer sur la question de l'admission de la Finlande ou celle du Portugal, etc. Le representant de l'Egypte estil satisfait de cette solution?
The President unattributed #155255
I made one suggestion this morning which I do not think found favour. Perhaps I might now make another one. It might be possible, as has been done in the General Assembly, to take the text of the USSR draft resolution in this way: Having considered the application of Albania .." and vote on that. Then the vote could be taken on the application of the Mongolian Peo- . pIe's Republic, on Bulgaria, and so on. Would that be satisfactory? Mr.. AUSTIN (United States of America): That would do very well. It makes no difference, as it would come to exactly the same end.
"The Secttrity Council,
The President unattributed #155256
That plan finds favour with the mover of the resolution. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt) : I am afraid it does not, so far as I am concerned, because it would mean that we would be .epeating the same preamble thirteen times. That is my appraisal of the situation. I repeat that it is with deep regret that I S:lY so. It is well known how seriously I object to global voting. It is well known how much I am in disagreement with-the way the Soviet Union delegation is submitting this draft resolution. For example, when we vote. on the first applicant, Albania, we'might say "yes", but then, when we go on to vote on another l':ountry, it would be necessary to restate the preamble. We cannot simply vote on one word with no reason for doing so. I do not want to make too many difficulties, but I think it is in the interest of the Security Council that its procedure should be correct. We cannot think that things are different because we want them to be different and because we insist on imagining that they are different.We must face our difficulties and not dodge them. I should be very grateful if any member of the Security· Council were to suggest some'way out of this procedural difficulty in connexion with the text; I woqld be delighted if we were to find some way out. I am definitely against global voting on this matter. The PRESIDENT: I quite agree that there is great force inwh~~ the represe.l1tative of Egypt has said, and I shall have to reflect upon it. Meanwhile, the representative of the Ukrainian SSR ha.s asked to speak;' perhaps he will suggest an acceptable solution of this difficulty. Le PRESIDENT (t1"aduit de l'anglais): J'ai presente ce matin une suggestion qui n'a pas ete approuvee; je voudrais en presenter une autre. On pourrait proceder comme on 1'a fait a l'Assemblee generale, c'est-a-dire prendre le texte du projet de resolution de 1'URSS de la fac;on suivante: "Ayant examine les demandes d'admission a l'Organisation des Nations Unies presentees par l'Albanie, ..." et voter sur la partie du texte·se terminant par le mot "Albanie". Ensuite, nous pourrions voter sur les mots "la Republique popu- laire de Mongolie", puis sur "la Bulg'cl.rie", etc. Cette s0lution parait-elle satisfaisante? M. AUSTIN (Eta~s-Unis d'Amerique) (tradltit de l'anglais) : Elle me convient parfaitement. RUe ne <;l.iffere guere de la mienne et revient au meme.· Le PRESIDENT (traduit de I'anglais): Cette solution a 1'approbation de l'auteur de la pro- position. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (t1"a~uit de l'anglais) : Je regrette, pour ma part, d'etre oblige de m'y opposer, etant donne que cela signifiera que 1'on votera treize fois le meme preambule. C'est ainsi, tout au moins, que je vois la situation. Je repete que c'est avec le plus grand regret que je me vois ~blige d,e le dire. On sait a quel point je suis oPPQse au vote global et combien je desap- prouve la f~l.(;on dont la delegation de 1'URSS a presente le projet de resolution. C'est ainsi, par exemple, que lorsque nous voterons sur la de- mande d:admission du premier pays, l'Albanie, nous pourrons repondre oui en ce qui le concerne. Mais, lorsque nous passerons a la demande d'admission d'un autre pays, il sera necessaire de reprendre le preambule. Nous ne pouvons pas nous limiter a voter uniquement sur le nom des pays sans mentionner le motif de ce vote. Je ne voudrais pas Creel' trop de difficultes, mais je crois qu'il est de l'interet du Conseil de securite que sa procedure soit correcte. Nous nepouvons pas voir les choses autrement qu'elles sont pour les rendre conformes a nos desirs, a force de les imaginer telles qu'elles ne sont pas. I1 ne faut pas que nous ignorions les difficultes ; n011S devons leur faire face. Je suis categoriquement oppose au vote global en cette matiere, et je serais heureux qu'un membre du Conseil desecurite nous propose une solution nous permettant de resoudre la.difficulte de procedure se rapportant au texte. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais) : Je recort': nais que l'argument presente par le representanf de 1'Egypte a beaucoupde valeur, et j'aurai aen tenir compte. Entre temps, le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine a demande la parole; peut-etre pourrait-il nous apporter une solution a ce probleme. My next comment concerns the question of a way out. I have absolutely no. intentioIl; of indi- cating a way out of the SItuatIon resulting from such procedure, which has put the Security Coun- cil in a ridiculous position. I have too much respect for.the authori~ ~f the ~ecuri~y.Council, for its ments, for the JustIce of ItS declslOns, and for the legality of its procedure to seek a way oi.tt of the ridiculous situation in which the major- ity has now placed itself by adopting a completely absurd decision. Now try to find a way out of that situation for yourselves! In the President's opinion, the way out is to put all thirteen applications to the vote. Other mem- bers of the Council may perhaps seek to find a way out by abstaining from voting, athird group by going to the lounge, and a fourth by simply sitting here and taking no part in the vote. Is this really a responsible approach to the taking of a decision on the fate of the thirteen States which have applied for admission to the United Nations? I do not consider that this is a responsible attitude on the part of .,the majority which has placed itself in such a difficult, I will even say, in such an unseemly situaHon. Try to find your own way out of this situation your- selves! . , '1"1 The delegation of the Ukrainian SSR will 'not·suggest any way out.
"Le Conseil de sectt1'ite)
The President unattributed #155258
As no other representative wishes to speak, I shall put the United States proposal to the vote. I do not think I need read the text again.
A vote was taken by show of hands.. as follows:
The President unattributed #155261
We therefore have to proceed now, in the words of the motion which has just been carried, to take separate votes on the various appl.icatior:s made by the countries named in the SOVIet Umon draft resolution, so that each membel' of the Security Council may reflect the attitude of his couJ;l.jry on each applicant. Ma seconde remarque se rapporte aux moyens de sortir de cette situation. Je n'ai nullement l'intention d'indiquer comment le Conseil pourrait sortir de l'impasse a 1aquelle il a abouti par suite d'une procedure qui l'a place dans une situation ridicule. J'attache un trop grand prix a l'autotite et a la dignite du Conseil de securite, je tiens trop a ce que ses decisions soient justes,a ce que la procedure suivie soit correcte, pour chercher maintenant une issue a la situation ridicule dans laquelle s'est mise la majorite en prenant une decision tout a fait absurde. Qu'elle prenne la peine de chercher elIe-meme une issue a cette situation. Le President considere que la solution consiste a mettre aux voix 1es treize demandes d'admission; d'autres cherchent une solution differente et se demandent si une partie des membres ne pourrait pas s'abstenir de prendre part au vote; un troisieme groupe trouve que la bonne solution serait de passeI' dans le fumoir; un quatrieme groupe, enfin, proposerait de continueI' a sieger sans prendre part au vote. Est-ce traiter serieusement une question qui met en jeu le sort des treize Etats qui ont sollicite leur admission a l'Organisation des Nations Unies? Je ne considere pas que la majorite, qui s'est mise dans une situation aussi difficile - et je dirai meme dans une situation aussi peu digne - traite cette question avec serieux. Que 1es representants de la majorite veuillent bien trouver eux-memes une issue a cette situation. La delegation de la RS'S d'Ukraine ne fera aucune proposition a ce sujet. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais) : Si aucun autre representant ne demande la pa'role, je vais mettre aux voix la motion des Etats-Unis. Je pense qu'it n'est pas necessaire d'en donner lecture a nouveau. Voten.t pour: Argentine, Canada, Chine, Cuba, France, Norvege, Royaume-Uni, Etats-Unis d'Amerique. Votent contre: Egypte, Republique socialiste sovietique d'Ukraine, Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques.
Il est procede au vote amain levee.
The President unattributed #155264
Is the representative of the Soviet Union asking for a written text? Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of S?viet Socialist Republics) (translatvd from RusSIan) : I do not understand how you are going to vote and what you are going to vote on. What text a.re you going to vote on? Wouldyo~please read 1t from be2"inninO" to end. There 1S generally a draft l::> l::> h' h '. t I resolution on w 1C to vote, or 11", par s. should, therefore, like t4is draft resolution to be put before us. There is no other procedure, only that proc(';dure. I ask that the text of the resolution' be read to us.
The President unattributed #155266
I have explained th~t the Security Council has adopted' a p.roposal to ~on­ sider and vote separately on the drfferent apphcations made by the countries named in the Soviet Union draft resolution. so that each member of the Security Council may reflect theattitu~e of his country on each apolicant. If the representative of the Soviet Union insists that a separate little text should be distributed in regard to each of these countries, that, of courj>e, can be done quite easily. The actual formula that I suggested was a very simple one and it would be applied to each of these countries in turn. It would simply be: "The Security Council recommends to the General Assembly that"-and then-the name of a particular country-"be admitted to membership in the United Nations.'~ If the representative of the Soviet Union really r~quires that thirteen pieces of paper be distributed. I must comuly with his request. But I should have thought that the formula was so simple as to obviate that necessity. It is merely a matter of voting "yes" or "no" on the question of whether the Security Council recommends to the General Assembly the itdmission of a particular country. I might add that on the previous occasion to which I have already referred, the 206th meeting of the Security Council held on 1 October 1947, after the Belgian proposal-which was similar to the United States resolution-had been adopted . by 9 votes to 2, the President then said:, "We shall now proceed to vote separately on each of the applications. The first application on which we have to vote.is that of Hungary." Then, after that vote had been taken, the President said: "The next application is that of Italy." And so he went down the list. It is a fairly simple procedure. The only point at issue is this: Does the Security Council recommend to the General Assembly the admission of such-and-such a country-taking them in the order in which they stand in the Soviet Union draft resolution? Le PRESIDENT (tradwit de l'anglcds) : Le representant de 1'Union sovietique demande-t-il un texte ecrit? M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (traduit d~t russe) : Oui, car je ne comprends pas comment nous allons voter et sur quoi nous allons voter. Quel est le texte qui va etre mis aux voix? Je demande qu'il en soit donne lecture integralement. On vote d'habitude' sur U.11 projet de resolution ou sur une partie de ce projet. C'est la la seuIe et unique procedure possible. Je demande donc qu'il soit donne lecture du projet de'resolution ou des parties de ce projet que 1'on propose de mettre aux voix. Le PRfSIDEIITT (traduit de l'anglais) : J'ai deja explique que le Conseil de securite a adopte une proposition tendant a proceder a un examen et a. un vote separe sur les demandes d'admission faites par les pays enumeres dans le projet de resolution de l'URSS,de falSon que chaque membre du Conseil de securite puisse faire connaitre 1'attitude de son pays sur chacun des candidats. Si le representant de l'Union sovietique demande qu't1n texte separe soit distribue pour chacun de ces pays, il est facile de lui donner satisfaction. La formule que je suggere est tres simple et pourra etre appliquee a' tour de role a chacun des pays interesses. Ce sera la suivante: "Le Conseil de securite recommande a l'Assemblee generale d'admettre (te1 pays) a l'Organisation des Nations Unies." Si le representant de 1'URSS demande reeUement qu'on distribue treize documents ayant ce contenu, je dais lui donner satisfaction. Cependant, j'avais pense que cette formule etait tellement simple, que cela ne serait pas necessaire. 11 s'agit simplement de n§pondre par oui ou non a la question de savoir si le Conseil desecurite recommande a l'Assemblee generale 1'admission de td pays. Je puis ajouter que, dans un cas preceden!, auquel j'ai deja fait allusion, apres que le Conseil de securite eut adopte, par 9 voix contre 2, le 1er octobre 1947, a sa 206eme seance, une proposition de la Belgique semblable a celle des Etats- Unis, le President a dit: "Nous voterons maintenant separement sur chacune des demandes d'admission. La premiere est celle de la Hongrie:' Apres le :rote sur la demande de la Hongrie, ~e President a dit: "La demande d'admission SU1- vante est celle de 1'Italie", et ainsi de suite jusqu'a l'epuisement de la liste des candidats. C'est la,une methode assez simple. La seule question a trancher est celle de savoir si l~ Conseil de·'securite doit recommander ou non' al'Assemblee generale l'admission de tel ou teI pays en respectant 1'ordre dans lequel ils s?nt enumeres dans le projet de resolution de l'UnlOfl. sovietique. Le PRiSlDE:NT (traduit de l'anglais) : I1 decoule de la motion des Etats-Unis, motion qui a ete adoptee, que nous votons separement sur chaque demande d'admission.Ceci resulte du texte de la proposition des Etats-Unis.
The President unattributed #155268
As the result of the United Stafes motion, which was carried, we are voting on separate applications. That results from the wording of the United States motion. M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (traduit du russe) : Dans ce cas, je ne puis comprendre de quel document le Conseil aura a s'occuper. Le President fait ce qui lui plait du projet de resolution de 1'Union sovietique, et, d'autre part, on ne comprend meme pas quel document va etre mis aux voix. Le Conseil dispose d'un texte ou sont enumeres tous les Etats candidats. Or, que nous propose-t-on maintenant? Peut-on voter separement sur un seul mot, par exemple sur le mot "Bulgarie"? Comment mettreaux voix le mot "Bulgarie"? J'avoue que je ne comprends pas. Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian): In that case, I do not understand what document we shall have before us. In the first place, the President does as he pleases with the draft resolution submitted by the Soviet Union and in the second place we do not even understand on what we are going to vote. We have a single text before us. That text lists all the applicant 5'tates, in order. What is being proposed now? Are we going to vote separately on a single word, such as "Bulgaria"? What will a vote on the word "BUlgaria" signify? That is quite inexplicable to me. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais) : Je ne fais que suivre un precedent que je viens d'exposer et que le representant de l'URSS n'avait, en 1947, eprouve aucune difficulte a comprendre. I1 s'agit la d'tme procedure qui, je dois le dire, me semble tres simple. Comme je 1'ai rappele, et j'espere que le representant de l'URSS m'a ecoute, apres 1'adoption de la proposition de la Be1gique, semblable a la proposition des Etats-Unis qui vient d'etre adoptee par 9 voix contre 2, le President declara alors: "Nous voterons maintenant sepao rement sur chacune des demandes d'admission. La premiere est celle de la Hongrie." On proceda alors au vote, ce qui ne sembla pas, a l'epoque, presenter de difficulte speciale pour le representant de 1'URSS dont le vote fut, en l'occurence, affirmatif. En ce qui me concerne, je ne vois pas non plus ou reside la difficulte.
The President unattributed #155271
I am merely following a precedent which I have just explained, and which the representative of the Soviet Union, in 1947, had no difficulty in understanding. It is· a procedure which, I must say, seems to me to be very simple. As I recalled-and I hope the representative of the USSR was listening-after the Belgian motion, which was similar to the United States motion which has just been carried by 9 votes to 2, the President then said, "We shall now proceed to vote separately on each of the applications. The first application on which we have to vote is that of Hungary." The vote was then ta1{en, and it did not seem at that time to have presented any difficulty whatever for the representative of the USSR who, in that instance, voted in favour. Nor can I see the difficulty myself. Apres le vote, le President continua: "La deu mande d'admission suivante est celle de l'Italie", et 1'on proceda au vote sans aucune difficulte et sans enregistrer aucune protestation. Je cite le volume No 92 des Proces-verbaux officiels du Conseil de securite, ou se trouve le compte rendu de la 206eme seance du Conseil de securite qui s'est tenue le ler octobre 1947. Entre temps, le representant de 1'p:gypte a demande la parole. After the vote had taken place, the President went on to say: "The next application is that of Italy", and a vote was taken without any protest or difficulty having been raised. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'anglais) ': J'ai voulu dire, par mon premier vote, que le representant des Etats-Unis a parfaitement le droit de faire mettre sa motion aux voix, et j'ai du voter contre son projet de resolution lorsqu'il a ete mis aux voix: rai vote contre dans, ce demier cas parce que je .n'avais entendu aucune explication convaincante, tout au moins pour moi, du genre de texte sur lequel on voterait. J'ai depuis pense a une solution que je desire presenter, et sur les qualites ou les defauts de laquelle je voudrais entendre l'opinion des membres du Conseil qui sont competents en matiere de procedure. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt) :) voted to the effect that the representative of the United States was fully e~tit1ed to have his motion voted upon, and. when l~ was so voted upon I had to vote agaInst. ThIS latter vote was motivated by the f~ct that I .~a? not heard any convincing explanatlon-convIncmg to me, at least-of what kind of text we sh?u1d be voting upon. Meanwhile, I have ?een delIberating a solution which I wish to su~mlt and upon the. feasibility or otherwise of whIch I should like the opinion of those who are well versed in procedural matters. .....-----
The President unattributed #155273
Does that not fall into the error to which the representative of Egypt drew our attention, nainely, that if the Security Council voted that way, the-result would probably be a block recommendation? Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): This procedure would avoid the necessity of voting thirteen or more times on the first part. At least it has the advantage of form.
The President unattributed #155275
It certainly would do that. However, would it not be exposed to what the representative of Egypt objected to S0. strongly, that is, a block or group reco~mendatlOn? Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt) : My objection concerned the form i~ which we should vote. The difficulty I am trying to help solve is that we should avoid voting on the first part thirteen or more times.
The President unattributed #155280
Is not the best way to achieve that to follow the precedent of 1947, and just vote on the countries? No exception was ever taken to it then. That procedure does not raise any of these points which cause difficulty or embarrassment. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): May I ask on what text are we voting?
The President unattributed #155282
I have only suggested that we should follow the precedent of 1947 when there was no text. I have already read it twice. The Belgian proposal, similar to the United States proposal, was adopted by 9 votes to 2. The President then said: "We shall now proceed to vote separately on each of the applications. The first application on which we have to vote is that of Hungary." The vote was then taken. We all know what that was about; it is quite simple. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt): I should like Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de to know the form our draft resolution would take l'angIais): J'aimerais savoir quelle forme prendra whenit is voted upon. Will there be thirteen notre projet de resolution lorsqu'il sera mis awe draft resolutions or will there be one draft I voix. Y aura-t-il un ou treize projets de reso- Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Est-ce que l'on ne retomberait pas ainsi dans 1'erreur sur laquelle le representant de l'Egypte a attire notre attention, a. savoir que si le Conseil .le securite procede au vote de cette fac;ot., il s'ensuivra probablement une recommandation globale? Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'angIais): Cette procedure eviterait d'avoir a. voter treize fois ou plus sur la premiere partie. Elle presente au moins un avantage de forme. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de I'angIais): C'est certain. Mais n'obtiendrait-on pas le resultat que le representant de l'Egypte combat avec tant d'energie, c'est-a..,dire une recommandation globale? Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'angIais) : Mon objection concernait la maniere dont nous devrions voter. Ce que je m'efforce d'aider le Conseil a. eviter, c'est d'avoir a. proceder a. treize votes differents ou meme davantage sur la premiere partie. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'angIais): Est-ce que la ~ei1leure fa<;on d'atteindre ce resultat ne consisterait pas a. suivre le precedent cree en 1947 et se borner a. voter sur chaque pays? Personne ne s'est alors oppose a. cette procedure. Elle ne cree ni difficulte, ni complication. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'angIais) : Puis-je demander sur quel texte nous allons voter? Le PRESIDENT (traduit de I'angIais): Je me suis borne a proposer que nous suivions le precedent cree en 1947, alors qu'il n'y avait aucun texte. J'ai deja. lu le texte a. deux reprises. La proposition de la Belgique, semblable a. la proposition des Etats-Unis, fut adoptee par 9 voix contre 2. . Le President declara alors: "Nous voterons maintenant separement sur chacune des demandes d'admission. La premiere est celle de la Hongrie." On proceda alars au vote. Nous savons tous de quoi il s'a~ssait; c'est tout a. fait simple. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypte) (traduit de l'anglais): Dans tous les cas je participerai au vote, et il appartient au Conseil de decider de choisir la forme qu'il desire. Mahmoud FAWZI Bey (Egypt) : I am going to participate in the voting in any case, and it is for the Council to put it in the form it wishes. M. TSARAPKINE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (traduit du russe) :Jt:: voudrais savoir ce qu'il adviendra du texte du projet de resolution de l'URSS apres le vote. Le texte restera-t-il te1 qu'il figure maintenant au pIocesverbal? Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian) : I should like to know what will happen to the text of the Soviet Union draft resolution after the voting is ended. Will the text of that draft resolution remain as it now stands in the record? Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Oui.
The President unattributed #155284
Yes. M. TSARAPKlNE (Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques) (tradu,it du 1"USse) : Tai compris qu'en le mettant atiX voix le President fera preceder a treize votes separes. Que1 sera, en definitive, le resultat de tous ces votes? Mr. TSARAPKIN (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian) : I understood that when YO~l· proceeded to the vote the President would take thirteen votes. Is that so? And what will eventually happen after all those votes? The PRESIDENT: I do not know. The questions raised in the draft resolution of th'e Soviet Union would all have been answered by then. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'ang1ais): Je l'ignore. Les points souleves dans le projetde resolution de l'Union sovietique seront tous regles a ce moment-la. Je voudrais faire savoir au Conseil que, d'apres ce qui m'a ete dit hier, ii seraif desira.ble que le Conseil ajournat relativement tot sa seance de la mantinee en raison de certains engagements. Je ne pense pas que le Conseil perdrait du temps en interrompant la seance, car cela permettrait a ses membres de se consulter. Ceci pourrait tendre a. raccourcir nos debats et a en rehausser la dignite. Apres avoir eu le temps de reflechir, nous pourdons nous reunir a nouveau cet apres-midi a 15 heures. Might I suggest to the Council that I was told yesterday that some function would make it desirable that the Council should adjourn its morning meeting rather early. I do not believe it would be a waste of time for the Council to adjourn, as we might consult among ourselves. This might tend to shorten our proceedings and lend them greater dignity.· We could meet again at three o'clock this afternoon after due reflection. M. MANUILSKY (Republique. socialiste sovie-· tique d'Ukraine) (traduit du russe) : La meilleure maniere de sortir de cette situation difficile est de lever la seance, pour aller dejeuner par exemple. Peut-etre est-ce le meilleur moyen de sortir de l'impasse, mais, a. mon avis, ce ne sera pas la meilleure solution pour la majorite qui par son vote a cree une telle situation. Mr. MANUILSKY (Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic) (translated from Russian) : Of course the .best way out of this embarrassing situation is simply to adjourn for lunch. That may be the best way out, but I must say that I do not feel that it would be the best solution for the majority which has voted us into this situation. La majorite devra repondre atoute une serie de questions sur la maniere dont le Conseil va voter. N ous voulons savoir ce que nous alions discuter; nous l'igtJorons encore. C'est ala majorite de nous le dire; "c'est elle qui a vote. Elie nousrecommande de proceder a des consultations: mais quel peut etre l'objet de ces consultations? En supposant que je veuille proceder a des. consultations avec le representant de l'Union sovietique, sur quoi pourrais-je le consulter, puisque la majorite . n'a fait aucune proposition? The majority should give us answers to a number of questions on how it will vote. We want to know what we are going to discuss; we do not know that; you are the majority and you have voted. You recommended us to consult together. What are we to consult about? Even if I want to consult with the representative of the Soviet: Union, what can I consult about since the majority had made no suggestions on the subject? Nous voudrionti savoir de quelie maniere le Conseil va voter et ce que l'on va nous proposer, car, jusqu'ici, on n'a entendu aucune declaration sensee, si ce n'est celie du representant de l'Egypte, iequel a ditque tout cela lui etait indifferent et qu'il ne prendrait pas part a. cette histoire. Cette declaration deg;:ge le representant de l'Egypte d'une situation ridicule, mais les membres du Conseil de securite ne peuvent resterdans cette situation ridicule. We should like to know how the Council will vote, in what form, and what will be proposed to us, but not a single sensible proposal has been made, apart from the Egyptian representative's statement that he did not care and that he would take no part in this question. That frees the respected i"epresentative of Egypt from an absurd situation but we, the members of the Security Council, cannot remain in that ridiculous situation. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais): Rien n'oblige le representant de la RSS d'Ukraine·a. consulter uniquement le representant de l'URSS ;
The President unattributed #155287
The representative of the Ukrainian SSR need not confine his consultation ~e r:~=:~~:.~"¥.:~_t~:,_~~:o~_~f.. Soviet As there is no objection, the Security Council will meet again at 3 p.m. The meeting rose at 12.50 p.m,. FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY-FIFTH MEETING H etd at Lake S~tccess, New York, on Thursday, 15 September 1949, at 3 p.m. President: Sir Alexander CADOGAN (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Present: The representatives of the following countries: Argentina, Canada, China, Cuba, Egyrt, France; Norway, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, T':nion of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America. ~SjAgenda 444). 1. Method of interpretation Mr. CHAUVEL (France), (translated from French) ~ I agreed this morning to the use of simultaneous interpretation. I feel that that procedure wa.> useful in our last discussion,.but that it would now be advisable to return to the usual method of consecutive -interpretation in order to allow ourselves more time for pursuing this rather complicated matter. I suggest, there- fore, that that procedure should be followed.
The agenda..' was that of the 444th meeting
The President unattributed #155290
If any member of the Security Council finns the system of simultaneous interpretation unsuitable or inconvenient, I think that probably we shall have to revert to the system of consecutive interpretation. I do not think it is .ft matter we can put to the vote. I think that if OBe member of the Security Council requests a change, we .cannot put the matter to the vote. I would, however, ask the representative of France if he would agree to the compromise which has been employed hfore whereby, if a speech is made in iI. language other than one (' f the two official languages, there might perhaps be simultaneous interpretation into English while the speaker is speaking, a...lld then conse,.~·tive interpretation into the other official !'nguage,French.. That would save a certain amount of time, since we v/ould not have the double interpretation, butit would slow down the tempo of our discussion. Mr. C:a:AUVEL (France) (translated from French): I agree to the procedure suggested, and that the consecutive interpretation should be made into English, so as to take into account the nationality of the President; but I do so .with the'same reservations as those I expressed this morning, that is,~on tbe clear understanding that no precedent should be established. En l'absence d'objection, le Conseil de securite reprendra la seance a 15 heures. La seance est levee a12 h. 50. QUATRE CENT QUARANTE. CINQUIEME SEANCE Tenue. a Lake S~t.ccess, New-York, le jeudi 15 septembre 1949, a15 hettres. President: .Sir Alexander CADOGAN (Royaume-Uni de Grande-Bretagne et d'Irlande du Nord). Presents: Les representants des pays suivants: Argentine, Canada, Chine, Cuba, Egypte, France, Norvege. Republique socialiste sovietique d'Ukraine, Union des Republiques socialistes sovietiques, Royaume-Uni de Grande-Bretagne et d'Irtande du Nord, Etats-Unis d'Amerique. L'ordre dll jOttr est cel~ti de lw 444eme seUllce (SjAgenda 444). 1. Mode d'interpretation M. CHAUVEL (France): J'ai accepte ce matin qu'il flit fait usage de l'interpretation simultanee, rai I'impression que cela a ete utile pour notre precedent debat, mais que nous aurions interet, afin de nous donner le temps de suivre cette discussion un peu <::ompIiquee, a. revenir au systeme habituel d'interpretation consecutive. Je me permets de suggerer cette maniere de faire. Le PRESIDENT (traduit de l'anglais) : Si I'un des membres du Conseil de securite estime que le systeme d'interpretation simultanee est inapproprie ou peu commode, npus devrons probable' ment revenir au systeme d'interpretation consecutive. Je l1e crois pas que la question puisse etre tranchee par un vote. Je pense que si I'un des membres du ConseiI de securite demande un changement, nous ne pouvons pas mettre la question aux voix; cependant, je voudrais demander au representant de la France s'H accepterait le compromis que voici et que nons avions adopte precedemment: si un discours est prononce dans une langue autre que l'une des deux langues de travail, nous, aurions recours pendant que I'orateur parte, a. l'interpretation simultanee, par exemple en angliis, et ensuite a. l'interpretation consecutive dans l'autre langue de travail, le franlSais. Cette methode nous permettrait de gagner un certain temps puisque nous n'aurions pas l'i~· terpretation consecutive dans deux langues; mals le rythme du debat s'en trouverait n&mmoins ralenti. M. CHAUVEL (Fra~ce): Je donne mon accord en ce qui,concerne cetteprocedure et pour q?e l'illterpretation consecutive soit faite en anglals, afin de tenir compte de la nationaIite du Pre~i. dent, et eela, sous la meme reserve-que ce matm, c'est-a.-dire etant bien entendl.'l que cette fal!0n de proceder ne creera pas un precedent.
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UN Project. “S/PV.444.” UN Project, https://un-project.org/meeting/S-PV-444/. Accessed .